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INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT

My interest in electrogravitics, which was the work of Townsend Brown began in 1985. I was interested because the physics theory I had been working on predicted a coupling between electricity and gravitation, which is pretty much what Brown was illustrating experimentally.

In particular, let’s say, in the standard physics theory, with General Relativity, which is our current theory of gravitation, you have only one polarity to gravity, so masses can only attract and there’s no possibility for gravitational repulsion or anti-gravity…a physicist who comes up with something like that is sort of speculating outside that framework.

Physicists have proposed that there might be some coupling between electricity and gravitation at very high energies and that’s one of their reasons for building huge particle colliders; they’re hoping to find this connection. But if they just look before their eyes, at the experimental evidence there is a connection, but it just at the normal laboratory voltages that you can generate.

Brown had a kind of maypole that he built with two disks…he would charge the disks. At the leading edge of each disk was a wire that would emit positive ions and the body of the disc was negatively charged. (Can you see that?) And he would charge, in the initial experiment, this type that you see here, he charged with 50,000 volts; about 50 watts of power and this would spin around at about 12 miles per hour, in a circuit. And then, he is reported to have done a similar thing but larger, on a 50-foot course charging up to a 150,000 volts and these were going several hundred miles per hour.

So, if you can picture about like model airplane speed – model airplanes can go several hundred miles an hour – and this was done…around 1953 at Pearl Harbor and he demonstrated this to some top brass from the military and the subject is reported to have become classified after that.

If they were so impressed with the result – some people say well this is due to the ion propulsion; the ions coming off of the front of the craft, somehow below the craft and causing it to move – and in fact, there’ve been experiments done to show this was not the case.

In fact, Brown tested his idea in a vacuum, eliminating the idea of ions and it actually worked better in a vacuum.

I was interested in this because I could explain this with my theory; basically, that the positive charges would create gravitational wells, just like our current concept, a gravitational well around a massive object, whereas electrons with would do the opposite; they create gravity hills which in effect, says it’s a gravitational repulsion effect.

So, if you look at Brown’s disk, according to my theory, you get a gravity-potential hill; a G-Hill towards the negative charge end of the craft and G-Well towards a positive and so there’d be, in effect, a gravitational gradient created across that, which would tend to propel it forward.

Well, I know that in ’52 he put on a demonstration to the Office of Naval Research. It’s kind of interesting; why would they end up classifying a whole project – his whole concept – a year later, if there wasn’t this…approach to take him seriously?

I believe that there are many ways to create gravitational effects – or at least, the approaches I’ve seen and heard of are quite different. That’s like various ways to skin a cat, I guess.

Brown was using high-voltage charge and it appears that that technology is used on the B-2. It involves using a maser, in this case. This would be a different approach than the one Brown was doing. This is using microwaves to create pushes on a distant surface.

There’s a very well-known technology, in the area of optics and there’s a lot literature on it, for the use of lasers – but you find nothing on it for the use of microwaves and I believe the reason for this is it’s very highly classified, because of its ability to be used for UFO propulsion.

And the beauty of this is that the microwaves stay in the beam, they don’t scatter out. That’s the nature of it. So you pump up your beam with energy and it’s not lost; like you’re putting your energy in a tube; it’s a resonator.

So, in effect, you could create a craft that’s standing on “poles”, in effect, they become like solid poles between the craft and the ground and this is how the, for example a TR-3B – there’s some talk about this using anti-gravity technology; it has three thrusters on the bottom. Well, this is what the thrusters would be.

There have been triangular UFOs. The TR-3B is one of the triangular shaped UFOs that we’ve heard about. The UFOs that may be of alien origin, disk-shaped and some of them, maybe some that we have created ourselves, probably use this technology. You often see three domes underneath. I believe these are actually microwave transmitters for the [microwave] beams. I think Robert Lazar has spoken about his experience with a few these devices at Area 51.

My first exposure to the discovery that this anti-gravity research was quite a big area – not talked about very much – but it was a major endeavor by major aerospace corporations – came from this report, “Electrogravitic Systems”, which I found very revealing. This is a photocopy.

The way I came about this report was, I was at the Library of Congress, looking under “gravitation”, to see if there was anything closely, remotely touching on the subject of electrogravitics, with which I had, at that time, in 1985 just become acquainted…through some articles about Townsend Brown and there was only one card in the whole catalog, which came close to being about this, [which] was this report.

Interestingly, it was missing from the stacks and they had to do a search, a computer search, to see where could there be another one. And the fellow said, “This must be a very rare report. It says it’s in only one other library in the whole US.” So, I said, “Where’s that?” “That’s at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base.”

So, I went ahead and ordered it through an inter-library loan request and I was surprised that they actually a sent copy to me. It’s actually in a red cardboard jacket and it’s bound. This was produced by a group called Aviation Studies International, which is kind of think tank in London that produces intelligence reports and they’ve been in existence for – they’re still in existence.

This report was dated 1956 and it was basically trying to encourage the aircraft industry to develop Brown’s technology – Townsend Brown’s electrogravitics technology, with the idea of developing a Mach 3 fighter craft or maybe even to commercialize it. So, instead of taking jets, we would all fly much faster, with electrogravitics!

And they did a survey of the aviation industry at that time and they named some aircraft companies. I have here in my book, “Subquantum Kinetics,” I take an excerpt from this study and just to name some companies, it says here, Glenn Martin, the former company name for Martin-Marietta which is now merged and has a different name. It said, “Glenn Martin now feels ready to say in public that they are examining the Unified Field Theory, to see what can be done…” and so on, see then further on, it says here, “…companies studying the implications of gravitics are said in a news statement to include Glen Martin, Convair Sperry-Rand, Sikorsky, Bell, Lear and Clark Electronics. Among companies who’ve previously evinced interest, include Lockheed, Douglas and Hiller.”

And the people who were writing this aviation studies report were calling for a Manhattan-style project to develop this – this was going to change our whole aviation technology. Then, we see later, in Business Week magazine, they listed a impressive array of companies, institutions backing gravity research – this is back in the ‘50s and that included Martin, Grumman, Lockheed, Sperry-Rand and so on and also, Hughes Aircraft should be added to the list.

I do believe that we have technology presently developed, which would allow us to easily navigate the Solar System. I wouldn’t be surprised if we have bases on Mars and the Moon and that we’re regularly going there with these kinds of craft.

But let’s say there was a Roswell crash and they said that the National Security Agency was formed to keep this all classified. Now, something like that is a very emotional experience. When you’re government officials and you realize that we’ve had contact – that there is extraterrestrial life, they have this advanced technology and when you become very emotional about something, one reaction is to hide it and then to see, “How can we use this for ourselves? We’ve got to keep one step ahead of the other countries.”

At that time, we had the Cold War with the Soviet Union, so this was the rationale; to use it for military purposes. You know, you can think back, suppose the same thing happened a hundred years ago, at the time the automobile developed? I sincerely believe we’d still be driving horse and buggies today, because there would be the fear that the automobile could change warfare, with there being much higher-speed travel and, “Obviously, we should classify this.” At that time, there wasn’t the same mechanism in place…we didn’t have the NSA and this major program to contain advanced technologies.

We think of it as a science, as a scientific discipline that’s based on observation and it’s open to change. One thing I’ve learned – I’ve had my degree in physics since 1969. I was thinking that it was that way; that it was very objective science. As you learn more about it; about the people; about the scientists, themselves and you realize how much it is a religion. It’s very closed. It’s resistive to changing its fundamental principles.

Relativity is one foundation. The Energy Conservation Law is another key foundation, for example.

The Patent Office – any chance for a new device coming, which could help us to solve our energy crisis problem, which [is] getting its energy from someplace that the Patent Examiner doesn’t understand where it might be coming from, he immediately thinks, “Oh, of this is a violation of the First Law of Thermodynamics,” which is one on the these principles, the physicists have set up.

Not thinking,  “Well, maybe there is a source in energy that we just haven’t discovered. Right now, it doesn’t necessarily fit into the physics framework.”

And instead of thinking that way, they immediately reject it, thinking, “Well, this fellow is a fraud,” or “He did his measurements wrong.”

So, it’s almost like it’s a very religious feeling, where the examiners have subscribed to a certain belief system and anything that challenges that, they will all deny its existence.

This was a case of a Canadian fellow, who had developed a technology for producing enough power to power your house out of something about size shoebox. It was a new way of wiring something up; some sort of nonlinear device. He was very open about it and publicizing it and trying to find investors, to sell the rights and as I understand the story, his house was one day surrounded by SWAT team and all his stuff was confiscated and he was arrested on the grounds that he was harboring “terrorist technology” or “weaponry” and he would be released if he signed something saying that he would not continue doing work in this area – and so now, he’s mowing lawns for a living.

So this is a very lame excuse for suppressing this kind of thing, in my opinion. If they are really that frightened about these new technologies, they can always license them, just like you license radio stations or whatever, to keep tabs on it; how much power it produces, for what purpose and I think, our current crisis, where energy is important enough, that this is the least they can do, instead of arresting people who are trying to help the world.

The way I had concluded the B-2 may be using the electrogravitics technology of Townsend Brown was through an article published in Aviation Week & Space Technology. There were some Black Project engineers who had disclosed to the editor of the magazine about some Black Projects technology that they were aware of. One of the things they said was in relation to the B-2; that the B-2 charges the leading edge of its wing to a high-voltage and its exhaust is charged to an opposite charge; high-voltage charge.

They had given some explanations of how this would help, for example to soften the sonic boom, if you charge it leading into the wing, which is true. In fact, it’s one of the things that Brown talked about. Also in the exhaust; they were saying how this helps cool the exhaust and disguise the infrared signature of the exhaust, which is also true.

They didn’t go further to explain the tie-in with electrogravitics. That’s the connection that I made. I realized that this was, in effect, a description of Townsend Brown’s patented device, it looked something like this, in his patent which was issued in 1962; his electrokinetics patent.

He was proposing a disc-shaped craft that would use what he called “flame jet generators”; these are jet engines that have been converted into sort of giant Van de Graaff generators; he was proposing that you could actually develop fifteen million volts through this technique.

In effect, then the jet becomes your electrical generator…a high-voltage electric generator. And he was saying that with that power, you are able to feed the positive side of the generator to the front of your craft and generate your ions, just like he was doing with his small disks that he was testing, going hundreds of miles per hour.

This is from ‘Subquantum Kinetics’ and explains how a particle comes into being. The reason I’m talking about this now, is that subquantum kinetics allows for the possibility of materialization and dematerialization.

Now, if you were to be able to raise this G-well so this supercritical region, this fertile region disappeared, this particle theoretically would dematerialize. We’d go back to the vacuum machine.

In relation to the technology of spacecraft – advanced technology – there are stories of how craft can actually dematerialize visually and so my theory about this is the they’re able to affect the gravity field of the craft. This, within context of subquantum kinetics; is how I would think it would occur; that they are able to make the craft lighter; raise gravity potential, make a G-hill there. The waves that form particles would diminish; go more towards the vacuum state.

There appears to be a process where the American Physical Society spokesman, Robert Park, makes fun of the new technology on his website. He’s making sort of sarcastic comments about it or pointing out how it breaks certain laws of physics or that are there codes of what they believe is valid. In effect, creating the impression that this is a fraudulent idea, that somebody’s doing something illegal to be trying to sell its idea or patent it.

In the case of Black Light, they had long vendetta against the inventor of this process, who is able to get energy out of just plain water. A glass of water would produce more energy than if you had that glass filled with gasoline, which is what Mills’ findings, finding what ultraviolet light is giving off, during this transition, and this is how he generates the energy – yes, a catalyst is able to release this energy.

Well, he’s a made some patents on this and just as the one patent on this was about to issue, it’d actually been announced, that the patent…was formally going to be issued in a week or two, Robert Park starts making fun of it on his website and apparently, there must have been an email campaign or a contact at the Patent Office, to embarrass the Patent Office and they pulled the patent, which is really illegal; the idea to withdraw patent after it’d already approved to be issued…

According to Patent Law, an invention is allowed to be patented, if it works and if it’s something new. It can work and break the laws of physics, as physicists know it – and it still has the right to be patented.

Time and again, technology has driven physics theory. Physics theory tends to be restraining on technological advancement, because all that you would come up with are the ideas that your theory happened to predict.

If that was the case, our technological advance would slow to halt…Fortunately, our patent system is set up to allow us to go beyond the laws of physics, to patent things that work.

Now, with the Patent Office, in its current approach is actually breaking the law, is trying to make happy the physicists who are with the American Physical Society, to keep them in power with their ideas, you might say and withhold from public use, good inventions that could solve our problems, like the energy crisis.

Black Light Power, the company that has this invention is not taking this lightly and they have initiated court suit and I think there’s a very strong possibility that they’re going to win this case.

But you see, this is not an isolated case. There’s a whole pattern of this going on at the Patent Office. I personally know, because I was at the Patent Office, for about a year and I know some people there and I know some of things that were going on and for example, there was somebody I know who issued a patent for a process of sending signals faster than the speed of light.

This was then made fun of by Robert Park on his website, through their connections. They have this posted somewhere, as “The Most Ridiculous Patent the Year Award,” this sort of thing. In effect, they embarrass the Patent Office and shortly after this happened; that this embarrassing publicity occurred, the Commissioner of the Patent Office reprimanded the Examiner and his Supervisor and he threatened to fire the Supervisor, so in effect, trying to satisfy this lobby group – that’s all you can call it – it’s a lobby group, it’s outside the government that has undue influence on the Patent Office and shouldn’t really be allowed to – I mean, they can say what they want; it’s Freedom of Speech – but for the Patent Office to do their bidding, instead of following the law –
that is illegal.

You could argue, just on the basis of viewing physics as a religion, in a way, a belief system, that anything that’s a challenge to their belief system they’re going to oppose – and they don’t care that something’s going to help society, because it would make them look like fools, that, “Geez, they can’t explain this and maybe their theories are wrong?” and people are going to start wondering, “Why do we send our children to colleges? Why are these university professors getting funded to build huge accelerators – for what purpose? Why do we spend billions of dollars on the super collider in Texas?”

So there obviously must be a monetary connection here, where they’re trying to protect their butts for funding too, and it’s self-interest, you know and the heck with the rest of the world, you know – let global warming happen, if it doesn’t fit into our “Physics Box”, that’s too bad.

In effect, these new energy technologies, for example are the underdog. You have to admit it. They don’t fit into the paradigm that is currently taught and believed and so, they are left out, getting the funding to be developed or to get their patents, even to the point to where they’re breaking the law – to prevent them from their patents from being issued. Without their patents issued, how are investors going to invest in the company?

So, we need massive education program, to educate the Patent Office in how they should follow the laws, instead of breaking the laws….

This should be a major issue or concern for Congress: the paradigm that we’re in, that’s being taught in our universities, physics classes, chemistry classes – it’s fine for the past and it’s done well – but we’re at a point where we need to go beyond that, we need technologies that don’t fit into that paradigm.

Alexandra Bruce

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Alexandra Bruce

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  • To Jerry, granted, this is a long article but if you’d read the whole thing, you would have read Dr. LaViolette’s statement that, “I do believe that we have technology presently developed, which would allow us to easily navigate the Solar System. I wouldn’t be surprised if we have bases on Mars and the Moon and that we’re regularly going there with these kinds of craft”

    and:

    “The way I had concluded the B-2 may be using the electrogravitics technology of Townsend Brown was through an article published in Aviation Week & Space Technology. There were some Black Project engineers who had disclosed to the editor of the magazine about some Black Projects technology that they were aware of. One of the things they said was in relation to the B-2; that the B-2 charges the leading edge of its wing to a high-voltage and its exhaust is charged to an opposite charge; high-voltage charge.

    “They had given some explanations of how this would help, for example to soften the sonic boom, if you charge it leading into the wing, which is true. In fact, it’s one of the things that Brown talked about. Also in the exhaust; they were saying how this helps cool the exhaust and disguise the infrared signature of the exhaust, which is also true.

    “They didn’t go further to explain the tie-in with electrogravitics. That’s the connection that I made. I realized that this was, in effect, a description of Townsend Brown’s patented device, it looked something like this, in his patent which was issued in 1962; his electrokinetics patent.

    “He was proposing a disc-shaped craft that would use what he called “flame jet generators”; these are jet engines that have been converted into sort of giant Van de Graaff generators; he was proposing that you could actually develop fifteen million volts through this technique.

    “In effect, then the jet becomes your electrical generator…a high-voltage electric generator. And he was saying that with that power, you are able to feed the positive side of the generator to the front of your craft and generate your ions, just like he was doing with his small disks that he was testing, going hundreds of miles per hour.

    This is from ‘Subquantum Kinetics’ and explains how a particle comes into being. The reason I’m talking about this now, is that subquantum kinetics allows for the possibility of materialization and dematerialization.

    “Now, if you were to be able to raise this G-well so this supercritical region, this fertile region disappeared, this particle theoretically would dematerialize. We’d go back to the vacuum machine.

    “In relation to the technology of spacecraft – advanced technology – there are stories of how craft can actually dematerialize visually and so my theory about this is the they’re able to affect the gravity field of the craft. This, within context of subquantum kinetics; is how I would think it would occur; that they are able to make the craft lighter; raise gravity potential, make a G-hill there. The waves that form particles would diminish; go more towards the vacuum state.”

    I do think that Dr. LaViolette may have been using some restraint in his language for a lay audience in this interview but I can also tell you, from having met him personally that he’s very conservative about any claims that he makes. He is a physicist and hews to science, as he knows it, while also not a dogmatist. He understands that there is plenty that we don’t know and that has yet to be proven.

  • The writer is very naïve to think that such advanced knowledge is being sit upon so as to not rock the boat. He evidently has yet to hear of the “Breakaway Civilization” financed by the “Black Budget” and other means where these, and other, systems are already being used for space travel and the planting of civilization.

  • Proof that man is the only known animated life form that is imaginative, creative and religious; capable of using those abilities for either creating or destroying, hence needing to be restricted. This is as much about culture and morality as it is about science. As it is, our culture is in a state of moral flux and unable to function according to rational principals and obviously baser men have seized control of the restrictive mechanisms. I don’t know that it is any worse than ever, probably not. Hopefully, venues like this one will help improve open discourse and help break the grip of our selfish inclinations.

    If I understand correctly that part of the hypothesis being considered here, the use of turbine combustion generators as somehow participating in motive power seems completely irrational to me. At least beyond atmospheric conditions.

    As concerning triangular craft, there was photographic evidence on YT of two bomber sized black triangles parked near buildings at Groom Lake facilities. Two separate photographs of two occasions. I assume those photos are still available.

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