Bill Binney – Directed Energy Weapons

This is a very strange interview by Bill Still of former NSA Cryptanalyst-mathematician-turned whistleblower, Bill Binney and his new wife, Dr Katherine Horton that was posted last week, on February 10, 2025. A web search, however reveals that this video was originally posted 18 months ago, on June 7, 2023.

I first came across Binney since 2013, when he was responding to Edward Snowden‘s disclosure of the NSA’s PRISM dragnet surveillance program. Binney maintained that this program was a breach of the 4th Amendment and a case of “Fraud, Waste and Abuse”. Binney had been a whistleblower about precursors to the PRISM project, since 2002.

I recall that he was already an amputee by 2013, which he publicly ascribed this to his diabetes.

In 2015, Binney was awarded with the Sam Adams Associates Award for Integrity in Intelligence.

In 2016, Binney was still talking about cybersurveillance, not about EM harassment.

In 2018, Binney was widowed after 48 years of marriage with his high school sweetheart, Carole.

In 2019, Binney seems to have become close to Dr Horton. He is currently around 82 years old and Dr Horton is around 42 years old.

Since then, they say they’ve been married and they’ve made sporadic disturbing posts about their lives under constant Directed Energy Weapons attack.

As I say, I’ve followed and supported Bill Binney for over decade and I consider him to be ‘A Good American’ and a Patriot.

It’s terrible to think he would be the victim of “biological attacks” that resulted in the loss of both his legs, as he now claims, as well as suffering from Havana Syndrome.

I’ve been studying the electromagnetic manipulation of humanity since the early 1990s and I wrote a book exploring this topic that came out in 2001.

Since discovering Sabrina Wallace about a year ago, I’ve promoted her whistleblowing efforts about the Biodigital Convergence and the 6G Wireless Communications Network.

I say all of this to emphasize that I support Bill Binney and that I believe targeted EM harassment, aka Havana Syndrome and that Anomalous Health Incidents (AHI) are real, as reported by Catherine Herridge last December.

That said, I’m not sure what I’m looking at, in this interview.

According to her ResearchGate profile, Dr Horton was a particle physicist at the Large Hadron Collider at CERN in Geneva, Switzerland and was a Research Fellow at Oxford University St John’s School. She has posted evidence of her work and qualifications on her website.

Dr Horton says she was”born to Hungarian-German parents” and she “experienced the non-stop terrorism of her family by the Romanian Secret Services Securitate,” before her parents fled with her to Germany, where she was educated, before she went to England to receive her Bachelor’s, Master’s and Doctoral degrees at Oxford University.

But even if her claims are 100% true, there is something off about their presentation as a couple and about their incongruous mannerisms throughout this interview. This could be because they’re under Directed Energy Weapons attack but I can’t help wondering if I can take everything they say at face value.

Bill Still seems to agree with my sentiments, telling Binney, “I didn’t want to do this interview, because it’s going to destroy your reputation and all the other videos that you’ve done!”

But if Bill Still felt this way, then why would he re-publish this video, 18 months later, as if it were new?

Dr Horton frequently hijacks the interview away from her husband. She recites very general statements about the history of electronic warfare and she often refers to their married life in the third person, telling Binney and their host, “Your wife has to sleep with two military metal helmets…I have a US and a German Second World War metal helmet, inside each other and I sleep with that and Bill frequently hears the shots impacting on those.”

Dr Horton and Binney use a lot of imprecise language that seems carefully-worded. If you listen attentively to this video, Binney never directly says that he is being electronically-harassed. He says he is under “pain control” for “point pain”, due to “implants” in his legs. In other words, he is highly-medicated.

Nevertheless – as Bill Still notes – Binney looks better, at 82 than he did 13 years ago and Dr Horton is in the prime of her life and looking very healthy – and, decidedly not like someone who is under constant attack by microwave “Pulsed Energy Projectiles” and/or “a novel wave electromagnetic waveform, with fancy properties,” that can bypass walls and punch holes into…sheet metal” – and aimed at her skull.

Binney credits his newfound health to “Getting more and more pissed-off at my government,” and to “my genetics and my wife, who’s insisting I eat certain foods and don’t eat others.”

Dr Horton replies, “So, you know, your wife died. Your wife got you diabetes Type Two.” So, Dr Horton refers to herself as “your wife” – but also she blames “your wife” (his late-wife, Carole) for giving him diabetes. This seems disjointed and borderline-inappropriate, in my opinion.

She additionally claims that he lost his legs, due to “a flesh-eating bioweapon”, saying, “they’re breaking-in at night and injecting you with a highly-loaded pathogen.”

Having never discussed this publicly before, Billnow seems to agree, saying, “Friends of mine…had suggested that I was the subject of biological warfare, because they had been in that area in the military, so yeah, that was their suggestion, right up front.”

Dr Horton says the infections only stopped after “We dead-bolted everything from the inside, including our bedroom door, so our bedroom is like Fort Knox.”

While they’re both high-level scientists and they offer detailed technological explanations about what’s happening to them, with some claims echoing those of Sabrina Wallace, many of their statements do seem incoherent and this interview is undeniably concerning.

I don’t know if I’m seeing elder abuse, when the two seem to be physically healthy. I don’t know if I’m seeing a case of Munchausen Syndrome, Folie à Deux, or possibly, a case of MKULTRA, where the couple has been programmed for Dr Horton to be Binney’s handler. Or maybe this marriage is simply Bill Binney’s Life Hack to stay out of an Assisted Living facility.

I hope Binney’s three children are looking out for him.

…

TRANSCRIPT

Bill Still: Well, hello. So, what we’re going to talk about today is some of the problems that you all have had with Directed Energy Weapons, which is now getting to be a little bit better-accepted subject, I’ll put it that way.

Bill Binney: Well, I think what is the they’re spending – what, $12 billion this year on it?

Dr Katherine Horton: No…if you Google “directed energy weapon market analysis”, there’s a a research company that’s doing all these market analyses of how big is the market? Who are the biggest players?

And Directed Energy Weapons are roughly a $50 billion industry and that is just a publicly-known section

Directed Energy Weapons range from classical microwave weapons, which are super-cheap and super-easy, any child can make a microwave weapon with a bit of electronic School knowledge by taking – I don’t advise it – it’s very dangerous – but by taking out the uh the microwave-generating device inside a commercial microwave.

So in the UK, I could buy a microwave for £15 in the local grocery store and…you can have the microwave emitter, take it out of the device and you can use metal funnels to point it anywhere.

Now, that’s already a Directed Energy Weapon. It’s a microwave weapon that just costs you £15! And there there were YouTube videos a couple of years back, maybe they’re still out there, of teenagers doing experiments in their own home with just such devices, cooking bacon across the room and stuff like that.

These experiments are horrifically dangerous, because microwaves can cause significant damage, they can cook tissue damage tissue, perfectly and at low energies they cause cancer, they induce tumors, so I do not recommend it.

But my point is that when you can make a stealth weapon, with which you can commit the perfect crime for…£15 or $35 US Dollars, then tens of billions are a lot of weaponry!

The simplest microwave weapons are very cheap and then, of course, they are more sophisticated ones.

Bill Binney: Which gets down to some of the measurements we’ve been able to take with the spectrum analyzer we have. It only goes up to 4 gigahertz and the spectrum they have it goes up to 300 gigahertz.

So I mean, you know, we’re only looking at a fragment of the spectrum. But in there, we have two very clear signals, that are about a 100 times the the power the level of all the other signals in the environment, that are like between minus 40 and 35 dBm [decibel-milliWatts]. It’s supposed to be down around 50 to 60 dBm, minus 50 to 60 dBm, somewhere in that range is what the FCC recommends and requires to be below, in terms of satellite transmissions, things like that.

And we’re measuring these things here, between 1,755 and 1.78 gigahertz and 3 to 3.2 gigahertz. Those are those are identified by the Federal Communications commissions as “allocated for use by the US military”.

Now, and we’ve had those signals, they’re line-of-sight signals. If you’re on a horizon and you have a 61 antenna, it’ll go like 14 miles or something like that and that’s about all you could but you have to be in able to see the target to radiate.

And we had these signals from our Spectrum analyzer they were hitting Us in Maryland and then we moved down here and now we’re down here, a couple states away and they’re hitting us, here.

So these signals are moving with us, which means the military is shooting and radiating us with signals and we don’t even know why.

Now, there are laws against this.

The Department of Justice and the Department of Defense have regulations and laws governing Experimentation on Humans and that means you have to get the informed consent of the humans involved in the experiment – whatever it is.

So we have never agreed to any kind of testing with radiation with the Government, in any form, whatsoever. So we’re being radiated, here without our permission.

Bill Still: This is almost comical, except it’s not.

Bill Binney: No, I mean it’s and and we’re pretty sure it’s not satellite, because there are zones of the spectrum that are also designated for Earth-to-Space and Space-to-Earth, you know and again, they have the regulations on the power level and things like that.

And this is far exceeding that, so I mean it’s not a from satellite. If it were, it would be radiating the whole Hemisphere, basically.

Dr Katherine Horton: Yeah, at least a spot size of one and a half miles, yeah.

Bill Binney: If you went to a spot beam, something like that, yeah. But but the point is, that would be a lot of power to use in Space and so it’s not, but according to the FCC, it’s not an a Range that’s allocated for Space-to-Earth or Space, so.

Dr Katherine Horton: Well, we have more evidence than that, because with directional antenna, in Maryland, we managed to track one signal and it was doing a figure of eight, so you’re holding a directional antenna and the peak intensity you’re measuring is basically when you’re just holding it stationary. It’s increasing and decreasing, and as you’re moving it, with time, you can map-out that whatever is radiating you is doing a figure of eight.

So, if you’re moving your antenna in a figure of eight you can always keep maximum intensity. In other words, it is a fixed-wing drone above our house.

So we had that. Now, the problem is that these drones are visually-camouflaged, so in addition to Directed Energy Weapons, there are several technologies the public doesn’t know about.

So there’s uh the Directed Energy Weapons, themselves and, as I said, they range from a you know $35 microwave weapon to more sophisticated weapons.

But in terms of visual camouflage, recently, certain technologies have been made public. One was even presented on the Gutfeld show, I think, on on Fox.

And you can use certain shielding materials that make you look invisible, so you see the background behind you but not the actual object.

So, there’s YouTube videos with people demonstrating these “invisibility cloaks” and a grown man can just stand in front of the shield and you just see the wall behind it, so the person truly becomes invisible. So we can also share some.

Bill Still: It doesn’t really take in some type of invisibility technology for a drone to be invisible uh I have a drone that can go up to 15,000 feet at 15,000 feet –

Bill Binney: (Interrupts) Altitude is the key.

Bill Still: Absolutely invisible.

Dr Katherine Horton: But the problem is really precision, because the pulsed energy projectiles, which we’re going to get on to, so the energy bundles that these drones shoot at us are very columnated.

So, from the bruising that they cause on victims, it’s roughly the size of a coin.

Bill Still: So that sort of the size of what?

Dr Katherine Horton: A coin, a quarter, so a coin of money, that’s roughly the the beam size and the impact size on on the victims, as can be seen in bruising from drone-gunning and stuff like that and.

It can go all the way down to something that’s more like the tip of a pencil. So, at that Precision level, you can’t be too high.

So in principle, you can go to any altitude but these drones are much closer than people know, in actual fact and and all I’m saying is that from from the figure of eight and how quickly it was moving through the figure of eight, that thing was a lot closer above our house than than you would necessarily – you know, have to be to be absolutely invisible.

And the problem is, that we have a lot of occasions when, on a clear day, blue sky, we are being hit. We can hear the impact sounds that follow especially me around.

So, whatever room I’m in, it’s going to shoot the ceiling above my head and if I go outside, there’s nothing I can see, but if we turn on the spectrum analyzers, we can see that something is irradiating us from above, so that’s the problem.

And I have been searching, for a very long time, for technologies that could explain how they pull this off. So, in principle, you can have it drone fairly close by, if you paint paint the underside nitrogen blue at a very short distance. You can’t see it very well.

Now, these drones that we’re talking about, they have to have a certain size, so we’re not talking civilian toy drones you know or like a realtor would have one to just photograph the neighborhood.

So it’s not those small things we’re talking about so uh we’re really talking about something sturdier, a bit bigger; military size. So, not exactly a Predator Drone but maybe, a “baby” Predator Drone, that can carry these weapons. So that’s roughly the size we’re looking at.

And in terms of a measurements, so the information we have comes from, as we said spectrum analyzers, just monitoring the spectrum directional electromagnetic measuring devices, where we can, with the directional antenna map-out the path of that that thing.

And we saw figure of eight, visually. Only once, did Bill and I actually manage to see a drone in Maryland. It was at night and it was camouflaged as a star. So camouflaging drones with onboard lighting as a star is actually quite common.

There’s newspaper articles about that. But the only reason we spotted it, is because you used to live just a few miles from the airport.

Bill Binney: Yeah, eight miles from the airport.

Dr Katherine Horton: And this drone was blinking white twice and red twice, so we were just standing outside looking up above our house looking for some drone, because there had been just horrific attacks.

And I said, “Hang on, Bill. Isn’t that light spot above that tree blinking red?” and he said, “Oh yeah. It’s blinking twice.” So together, independently, we looked and we both saw it flash red twice and white or neutral twice.

Bill Binney: If I had to estimate, I would have thought was between 500 and a 1,000 feet up, my guess.

Bill Still: That’s, of course, that would that would be below what the FAA automatically trace and come down on.

Bill Binney: We did talk to the FAA people at Friendship [MD] and because WE thought it was a danger to flights coming in and out of the airport you know.

And when we sent them notes about the timing and all, they looked at the records they had on radar for that time period and they ouldn’t find it.

Dr Katherine Horton: But more than that, they also refused to send out their investigator.

Bill Binney: They didn’t send anybody out to investigate anything, anyway.

Dr Katherine Horton: Talking just about Directed Energy Weapons: so the the the sort of symptoms…or effects that people need to look for, if they are thinking that that they might be affected by Directed Energy Weapons is, Number One: any odd medical symptoms. For example, medical symptoms that are geographically-localized. For example, you walk past the window and every time you walk past the window, you just feel dizzy or you feel the side of your head is burning or something like that. So, anything that indicates it’s actually a beam

So they’re different types. There are pulses and they are beams, continuous beams.

And typically, I say to victims, “If you feel pain, just try turning around quickly. Does the pain or the burning kind of move? Does it stay localized in space but it moves across your body?” Stuff like that.

Other ways to test this is, if you you move and the pain transfers from one half of the body to the other, because the two sides of the body are being read-out by two opposite sides of the brain. So, even if it’s something medical, any physical symptoms can’t just hop from one side of the body to the other. That’s just not how medical effects work.

So, as soon as you have any sort of sensations that are like that; geographically-located or they jump from one side of the body to the other, you are most likely dealing with a directed energy weapon beam.

Now, in terms of their reach, already, classical microwaves can easily go two or three walls, at you know perfect intensity. So, I think it reduces – I forgot the actual transmission ratios – but I think you drop – either you drop down to a quarter of intensity or it drops down by a quarter, I have to look it up exactly – but either way, you can just crank up the power and reach somebody two or three walls inside the home.

And this is also the reason why, for example cell phones work in the basement. You can easily radiate through the floors above you, directly, straight to the next cell phone tower, with maybe one bounce of a wall or something like that; a small reflection.

And you can reach the next cell tower and make a phone call. And similarly, because cell phone communication is microwave you can have microwave weapons at higher intensity, shooting you in the basement, burning you in the basement by having a columnated beam just radiating through several walls of the home.

So all that is well-known physics.

Bill Still: The beam would be vertical in nature and you’re indicating one that would come horizontally, which is not explained by the technology that you’ve already described.

Dr Katherine Horton: Oh, no. If you have, for example a microwave emitter and you take a funnel, you can turn the funnel and the beam will point wherever you want it to be, so it is typically vertical when it’s a drone that’s shooting straight down. But a drone can shoot diagonally, as well. So any sort of electromagnetic –

Bill Still: (Interrupts) If there a lot more altitude.

Dr Katherine Horton: Well, yeah yes – and yes and no – because, sometimes for example, you can just move a drone, to be able to shoot through a window or shoot through a window and diagonally down.

Bill Binney: You have to be able to see the target. that’s the criteria.

Dr Katherine Horton: Well, regarding the seeing the target, another piece of technology that the public doesn’t really know about is so-called “through-the-wall” radar.

Now, a couple of years back, Lawrence Livermore lab – aka weapons lab – had a happy little YouTube video, where they were showcasing their technologies and what they were developing. And one of them was a radar device and and they were advertising it as a little cute device you can put on the back of a pickup truck and you can drive it downtown and make a a floor plan of a high rise.

Now, nobody needs this technology, because by the time you built the high rise, you have the flow plan, right? And all the contractors have it, so this is nonsense.

And one of the things that this YouTube video didn’t mention is that you don’t just get the floor plan with these microwaves, you can basically do almost like, you know like radar you can map-out things in three dimensions with classical radar. You can do the same thing with microwaves but the one thing Lawrence Livermore lab did not emphasize is that you can see every person inside that high rise.

So you can just park a little, innocuous pickup truck, irradiate the building and find out exactly where people are and and see them, live, anywhere inside that high rise; in the bathroom; in their bedrooms.

You know, and for victims, concretely, what it means is that even if you have an apartment and you are away from windows, somewhere inside, a drone can just use through-the-wall radar and locate you, precisely and shoot you precisely with a pulse beam.

We have – well, in in Europe, alone – we had thousands and thousands of victim testimonies and victim cases, all of them reporting, pretty much exactly the same thing and none of them manage to get a lawyer to take a case.

Bill Still: That would imply what size weapon, though?

Dr Katherine Horton: Well, in terms of the size, so when we’re talking a classical microwave weapon like a child could build, as demonstrated on YouTube, it fits in the palm of your hand. That’s a microwave weapon. So, that’s the emitter in your in your microwave, if you take it apart. That’ll go through a wall. That can go through walls. That is just the microwave generator.

If we’re talking more sophisticated weapons, there are different technologies. There’s, for example, you can shoot people with charged particle beams. Now, I have seen at a technology fair in Germany. I have seen one device being advertised and it was tabletop but we’re talking a small tabletop you know…you can easily fit it onto a writing desk, a standard-size, writing, office desk.

And that is the the beam line the acceleration line. All the hardware, all the technology – and I think, back then, I asked about the price and he said, “It’s about $500,000.”

So for half a million. Now, that was that was years and years ago – we’re going back eight, like maybe 10 years, right? So, since then, the price has come down.

Now, could a particle beam like that fit on a drone? Oh yeah. Easy. Easy! You know, that would fit on a “baby” Predator drone, without question.

Bill Still: Well, it would have to be battery-powered.

Dr Katherine Horton: Yeah, something like that but that’s not really a problem, depending on how much you want to generate. Because, the other thing is that, for example microwaves do not take that much energy to generate, really.

If you want to have low-level – depending on what you want to do – if you want to give somebody um accelerated cancer by irradiating the same organ or body part, day and night, that doesn’t even take that much energy.

If you want to have really something that you know has a lot of “oomph”, OK, maybe you can operate it for two three hours and then you have to you have to have the next drone take over.

But even that; having a continuous exchange of drones is not that hard to do. And I say that, because a couple of years ago, Mark Zuckerberg was floating the idea to provide internet to rural areas of Africa by using drones. So that would be a fleet of drones that is continuously above your area and your internet comes through WiFi from the drone, right?

I mean, the rural parts of Africa are vast. If you can do that, you can easily do the same thing for a couple of thousands of high-value targets, who you want to terrorize, day and night.

Bill Binney: Now, you have to couple that with the implication of all the drones that are flying up and down the East Coast here. What is the capability there you know is this part of that testing I don’t know

Dr Katherine Horton: I doubt it! I don’t think we’re part of any testing we’re part of deployment, Bill! (Laughs).

Bill Binney: Oh, for us; for what they’re doing to us. I think it’s implemented. But for the rest of the country, maybe they’re just testing the wide area stuff.

Dr Katherine Horton: If you have a, let’s say a so-called “Targeted Individual”, somebody who goes through all these crimes. Well, you can test, you can have individual contracts, testing microwaves or whatever Directed Energy Weapon in vivo, on a live target.

You can you can test it on their brain, their kidney, their pancreas, right? Their liver. You can have special research contracts for every organ in their body and systematically destroy it and see how long does it take, with a certain frequency, a certain intensity – whatever you want to test, to just destroy that organ.

When this victim goes to a doctor and does any tests, well, the medical file and the medical results are digital and are being automatically read-out, collected and stored by NSA.

So, you have a perfect loop, where you can just pick somebody out there in the community just say, “We’re going to test this technology on them.” You just fly a drone own or you put a microwave next to their bedroom, say in a neighbor’s home, who you paid-off and then, you can run all these contracts.

You can irradiate their brain, their liver, their kidney; see what gives-in first and read-out their medical files.

And in this way, you don’t have any legal liability. The actual medical cost of your experimentation is entirely borne by the victim and you can do anything you like.

So, in terms of business plans, this is such a lucrative one, the intelligence agencies would be fools not to do it, almost.

Bill Still: Other than a whistleblower.

Bill Binney: Yep, yeah. Well, she’s the physicist, so she takes care of the physics of it. I’m the mathematician.

Like, for example, that signal, 1.755 to 1.78 gigahertz has 17 tones but one tone is never active. There’s eight, nine tones active and then, one, not and then seven active.

So, if you just thought about combinations of tones – nothing else – as probabilities, how many things could you address with that?

That’s 17 factorial variations of tone-pattern, which means, you know 17 X 16 X 15 X 14, which is over over 1.7 trillion, is, I think is the number.

Combinations of things that you could address, individually. So, if you were talking about people, you could address 1.7 trillion people uniquely, with the tonal patterns.

Dr Katherine Horton: I guess what you what you haven’t mentioned is that these these are electromagnetic frequencies that could, for example dial-up a covert, non-consensual chip in somebody.

Bill Binney: Yes, which we can get to, now yeah but but also the uh the one at two three 3 to 3.2 gigahertz has a 200-tone pattern which means that could be up to 200 factorial combination, which is simply off the charts.

I mean, if you put a thousand chips in every individual in the planet, they could still address each one, individually and still have plenty of plenty of space to address more.

I mean, that’s how that kind of thing could work. I’m not saying it is but you know, I just think of the mathematics of it, that’s all.

Dr Katherine Horton: Well, what we have, in terms of evidence is that we have these two frequency zones. So, one is roughly around between 1.7 and 1.8 GHz and the other one is starting, just under 3 GHz-and-up.

Now, both are registered with the military. The first one, around 1.7 1.8 ghz is specifically-registered as “Electronic Warfare”.

Bill Binney: “Research. Electronic Warfare Research.” (Smiles).

Dr Katherine Horton: Yeah, well, not just “Research”. They call it “Electronic Warfare” in the FCC tables. “Electronic Warfare Research” – anybody can find on Google the PDF with all the frequencies that the FCC has licensed and this frequency, specially-licensed for so-called “Electronic Warfare”.

Now, the question is, what does that mean? Is it really just irradiating somebody or is it, maybe communicating with their covert chips, that they don’t even know they have?

Now, how many people might have covert chips? Well, and I think it was 2012, the FDA approved that microchips can be put into pills and tablets. That’s in 2012.

Bill Binney: They claim it’s so that “doctors can ensure their patients are taking the medication properly”.

Dr Katherine Horton: It’s to ensure compliance. Compliance is a very creepy word, indeed, right? Because you consent to your medical treatment and there’s no compulsion that you actually take the advice of your doctor. It’s just advice, right?

So, when they feel that they have to put chips in, to check compliance, that is like a subjugation process.

And, really! Do they care? They don’t really want to make anybody healthier. Once you paid for the medicine, who cares if you take it? It’s your problem!

So, the FDA approving microchips is really the roll-out of a slavery program. They want these microchips in people’s guts. A some chips are small enough to get through the even the blood-brain barrier.

Bill Binney: Now, we don’t know what’s in the tones of these signals, because we don’t have a…you’d have to have a program to diarize, to translate all that transmission into something meaningful.

And even then, it’s probably encoded or encrypted, in some form and you need to get through that.

So there’s a number of things you’d have to do to get through, to find out what really is going on, there and what they really kinds of information or what they’re using those tones for.

I’m just saying there’s 17 tones in the one; that you can see peaks of energy in that signal, and then the other, it’s like 200.

So, you’d have to look at each one, individually to figure out what’s going on and diarize it and analyze it and try to break through the codes, and things like that.

There’s a layer of things you have to get through. It’s nation-state stuff that has to happen, to find out what those things are doing, you know.

Dr Katherine Horton: So, in other words, you could have done it, while you were still at NSA, but as a private person, to really figure-out what exactly they are doing is impossible.

The technology, alone is too expensive for anybody to just –

Bill Binney: I mean, just for us – to try to buy a spectrum analyzer above 4 GHz is you know $60,000 or more than that.

Dr Katherine Horton: Hang on – no, that was the drone. That was the so-called “Drone Defender”. If you really want to be able to prove that it’s a drone and where the drone exactly is, it’s like a dome technology it has little – what’s it called? Little segments where it’s monitoring the sky and it can actually show you, “Hey, the drone is over there!”

Bill Binney: Well, that’s a different thing.

Dr Katherine Horton: Yeah, now that thing cost $60,000. You can buy it privately. It’s kind of the stuff that Donald Trump’s car Convoy has. One of the cars has like a black dome. Well, that’s exactly this: it’s a drone-monitoring device. That cost $60,000. Peanuts for for Donald Trump and the US President but for private person you can’t expect every victim to fork-out that sort of money.

And it would be just one of the many technologies that you would need to really conclusively prove that this is going on.

Bill Binney: What you really need is a wide-band spectrum monitor, that is that covers multiple gigahertz and you monitor them simultaneously; everything in that frequency range, so then, you could see different peaks hitting at the same time and then, perhaps figure out there’s a signal being sent down, on many different signals, simultaneously across that spectrum.

And there are ways to try to figure that out – but again, that’s nation-state technology and you know it’s really expensive.

Bill Still: Nation-state Technology; you mean that only nation-states would have both the funding and the research ability to go after that?

Bill Binney: Yeah. So far. That’s basically it, yeah.

Dr Katherine Horton: So really, in summary, I mean, there’s one more technology, I think for the interest of the audience, we should mention this is the pulse energy projectiles. That’s really novel physics, I suspect, based on the features.

But before that, if we just pause and I take a step back and realize what has happened is that classification allowed one section of society, comprising hundreds of thousands of people – I think 250,000 people have Top Secret clearances – last time I read about that, so a quarter of a million of people have Top Secret clearances and those with Top Secret clearances have access to this technology.

They know what this consists of. Maybe there’s levels of classification above that and not everybody gets given it, but in principle, that is the number of people who would know what’s going on. They can build companies using this technology. They can do industrial – not just industrial espionage – they can eliminate business competitors by killing them, by committing the Perfect Crime, so we have a bifurcation of society with the Insiders on the one side and the non- Insiders on the other side.

Now, the Insiders can use the resources of the US government – hey we’ve just heard about USAID, right? And how they were using billions of dollars. The same will happen in the military and the intelligence agency, so they can develop the technology; build the technology, then leave government, found a a private company and offer these services that, “We will kill whatever business competitor, annoying neighbor, former lover, whoever, using stealth technology that is physically impossible for the victim to prove and trace back to you.”

For example, a former colleague of Bill’s, Karen Melton Stewart, she was permanently-debilitated last year, so that she cannot communicate with us. We don’t know her status. So, they let us live as long as they want to and the victim organizations, the charities in Europe and US, they have entire lists of victims who have already been murdered.

So, it’s called “Non-Lethal Weapons” but they are very lethal, at the twist of a of a button. That’s the problem well.

Bill Still: How much worse of a trouble do you have to be than you two by exposing this stuff, in order to get the deadliest version?

Bill Binney: Well, you see, part of the degree of safety, I think we have, is because we are public about it. And the more public you are, I think it affords you some form of protection, because people know about it.

And I basically said, “If anything happens to me, it’s the Intelligence Community doing it,” you know? So they’ll know who did it and they don’t want that kind of advertising, I guess so, at least, they’re not prepared to accept it.

Bill Still: Since when is that that stopped them?

Bill Binney: I know. Well, I mean, I’ve gone through any number of things, here in my life. After I retired from NSA and after the Department of Justice and the FBI falsified evidence and attacked me and others, I’ve went through any number of biological attacks and I’m under pain control, right now, because of the the implants I’ve got in my legs. I mean, my pain doctor said he’s never seen anything like this.

But it’s like four parallel points on each of both of my stumps; the lower stump. I had both legs amputated and I’ve got four points in parallel positions on both legs, where this pain occurs. They’re point pains, they’re not area pains and I could put my finger over each of them and say, “That’s where it’s coming from: here and there.”

And one case, we did have an x-ray of it and found a shadow in there and we tried to get people to take it out but nobody would help us do that. We couldn’t find a doctor that would help us remove that thing, because it was right where the pain was. I put my finger right over it and there’s that shadow on the –

Dr Katherine Horton: Foreign object.

Bill Binney: Yeah. There’s a foreign object, that one can see.

Dr Katherine Horton: But in terms of evidence for Bill’s chips; first of all, Bill lost both his lower legs, in two independent flesh-eating bacterial infections.

Now, he had a total of 12 flesh-eating bacterial infections, which started a couple of months after the FBI raid on him, in 2007.

Bill Binney: The next year. I was raided in 2007 and that started in August. Well, almost a year later – to the exact day!

Dr Katherine Horton: Since 2008, I think our flesh-eating bacterial infection stopped, when? 2023?

Bill Binney: I think it was ’23.

Dr Katherine Horton: Because, we got married and I he kept having these flesh eating bacterial infections that would eat a huge crater into his leg or a massive tunnel, in the shortest amount of time. I’ve never seen anything like it! And then I said, “Bill, I think they’re breaking-in at night and injecting you with a highly-loaded pathogen, here!”

Probably a bioweapon, a flesh-eating bioweapon they developed, because it was progressing faster than anything was natural. And eventually, we dead-bolted everything from the inside including our bedroom door, so our bedroom is like Fort Knox and that’s when it stopped.

That’s when Bill recovered from the last big old infection, so you know, when you have 12, you can run a statistical analysis and say, “What is the probability that somebody gets a flesh-eating infection?” it’s basically vanishingly small. To lose one limb is even rarer. But to lose two limbs, not in the same infection but two completely-independent infections is unheard-of!

But to have 12 – that is just impossible, you know. So, in other words, we can prove that this was the intelligence agencies and ultimately, blocking them out was the way that Bill managed to be healthy for the first time.

Bill Binney: Well, and I had friends of mine who had suggested that I was the subject of biological warfare, because they had been in that area, in the military, so yeah, that was their suggestion, right up front.

Bill Still: I how do you explain that you look healthier now than you have since oh I don’t know how long have I known you for 12 or 13 years?

Bill Binney: Something like that, yep.

Bill Still: You look healthier now than you ever have, since I’ve known you.

Bill Binney: That’s because I’m getting more and more pissed-off at my government.

Bill Still: No!

Bill Binney: Yes! yes!

Bill Still: Anger does not make you healthier it

Bill Binney: It gives you a motive to stay and keep going. That’s what it does.

Bill Still: I don’t believe that!

Bill Binney: It’s a war and it takes two sides to quit and I’m not done!

Bill Still: OK. That’s –

Bill Binney: Well, I mean, they lied about me in Federal Court and we found the evidence to show that they lied and that they were doing Malicious Prosecution and we said, “Well, OK, let’s go to court. We’re going to charge you with this. Let’s go!”

And they ran away and I haven’t heard from them, since.

Dr Katherine Horton: But that was back in 2008.

Bill Binney: That was well, that was 2010.

Dr Katherine Horton: 2010, yeah. But that’s when you started losing your legs.

Bill Binney: Well, two years later yeah yeah

Dr Katherine Horton: 2010-2013. But I think the the point is that, with all of these things, even though it takes really, ultimately nation-state level technology to pin it down, perfectly, if you really want to decode what the control signal is, that’s being sent to your body chips or whatever, yes that takes a lot of money.

But what I want victims to know is that there’s a lot of very cheap, affordable stuff that you can do to prove that something is going on. So, for example, as I said.

So, if you are wondering, “Am I being tortured by remote control through chips or through directed energy weapons?” both of which, have been proven in many victims, right?

The test is if it’s a beam or pulse being shot at you from a weapon. There has to be a beam line, so if you turn your head, do you feel the the pain suddenly on the back of your head or the back of your shoulders – wherever – so can you can you make out a beam line?

And then, there’s also objective evidence, for example, in terms of Directed Energy Weapons, classical microwaves can be completely reflected with just one layer of metal foil, so aluminum foil, right? Alu-foil; that, completely, 100% blocks classical microwaves.

So, if you feel like you’re being burned; you’re sitting at your desk chair, suddenly, you can feel a side of your body being burned and it looks like it’s coming through the window, just hold up alu-foil, and see, do you feel better?

Because, if you do, it means, yes, indeed a drone or your neighbors are radiating you with a classical microwave weapon.

Now, in terms of more sophisticated weaponry, there’s something called “Pulsed Energy Projectiles”. I think that’s even the expression that the military use in their own documentation. So, Pulsed Energy Projectiles can be two things: 1) you can have bundles of charged particles and shoot them in a pulse. That can cause quite a bit of damage; so you can have particle pulses, right? Particle bursts but 2) there’s also, there seems to be a second technology, that seems to be purely electromagnetic.

I couldn’t detect any particle showers and those Pulsed Energy Projectiles seem to be using novel physics that was classified.

I suspect personally, it’s using Tesla Physics. So, people might not know but when Tesla died, he died in a New York hotel room and the FBI raided it and stole all his papers, basically. So all the Tesla papers were taken by the FBI and, to my knowledge, it was John Trump, the uncle of Donald Trump, who was at MIT, at the time and he was tasked with working through these papers.

So, they…needed somebody clever to actually understand what Tesla was working on and I suspect that John Trump was the person who went through this, explained it to them what it was.

And that all that work was classified and I think that is what has turned into these Pulsed Energy Projectiles.

Now, what I mean, concretely is the following: when you have a classical electromagnetic wave, you have the photon traveling in One Direction its field, its Force Lines are electric and magnetic, so electromagnetic, together.

But they are always at at exact 90° angles to each other, so if this middle finger is the line of travel of a photon, the electric and the magnetic field lines are all at 90°.

What that means concretely is that light cannot give you a longitudinal momentum. Light cannot impact on something and punch a hole in it. It’s physically impossible it is completely verboten, according to the Maxwell’s Equations, as we have them right now and as the physics that would be taught at places, like Oxford, right? So any University will tell you it is not possible.

However, if there are certain higher-level solutions to Maxwell Equations, maybe in a higher-order term, one or two, you can suddenly have Wave Solutions.

So waves that are completely in agreement with our Laws of Electromagnetism, that can have longitudinal force fields, right so what it means, concretely is that then, you could have a high energy electromagnetic beam and say, punch a hole into something.

You can already do that, with particles, like electrons and protons. You can shoot that at the target and punch a hole in it.

But with these novel electromagnetic solutions to the Wave Equation, you should you could, in principle also be able to do that with an electromagnetic wave, which would make it even more powerful than a particle beam. And I have reason, I have collected video evidence and measurements that seem to imply that that’s exactly the case.

Now, concretely, a spectacular example that happened, which was witnessed by Bill and by Me was in Maryland.

So, I was being irradiated and gunned so hard in our second floor bedroom, that I couldn’t take it at night we were already using shielding, we had put alu-foil um alu-foil, like a canopy above the bed. Bill had even heard impacts, moving along in a straight –

Bill Binney: It was like something came along and was searching. It made an impact and then, that impact kept like repeating for about 3 feet, across the top of the in foil. It went right across the the bed.

Dr Katherine Horton: So, you hear suddenly on the Alu, “Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang,” you know? Something is impacting.

Now, at that point, I said “Right. That’s it. We’re moving the bedroom into the basement.”

So we went down into the basement and also, we bought about eight whiteboards that have these thick metal bags that was the cheapest way to get really large sizable um sizes of metal and we put them on the ground floor um so basically, above the the the bedroom area in the basement.

Now, one night we were downstairs and suddenly we heard two “Heck Almighty” impact sounds. It was like two bangs on the ground floor.

And when we went upstairs, we found that there were two holes punched through the sheet metal, that was on the ground.

So, it would have been a clean Head Shot, had it gone straight through. But instead, it punched holes into the into the sheet metal.

So, but the thing is, there was no holes on the on the roof or the ceiling of the second floor. There was no other holes. How the Hell do you punch holes into sheet metal, without punching holes into the walls or the roof of the building?

Now that, in my analysis – maybe I screwed up my my energy deposition calculation – but I think that is not possible to do with charged particle beams, because as soon as a charged particle beam goes through any material, there are secondary showers. It starts being dispersed, you know, it’s not that easy.

However, if you have a novel wave electromagnetic waveform, with fancy properties, you can focus in on a deeper level, inside a material and punch holes into that sheet metal and not deposit as much energy in the layers before. That’s what I’m talking about.

So, it’s kind of very, I mean, it’s horrifying. It sounds crazy. And yet, we have still we’ve got the whiteboard, with the holes in it.

We heard it. There was video CCTV running at the time, so this whole scene was recorded. We’ve reported it to the police and they proceeded not to give a rat’s tail.

So, putting all of this together, we’re fairly sure we were targeted by the military and it was probably an assassination attempt and they just hit, you know, instead of punching holes into our brains, they punched holes into sheet metal.

Bill Still: But I’m looking at a guy who’s looking better every time I interview him, so.

Bill Binney: Let’s hope it stays that way! Let’s hope it stays that way! Yeah, well, I mean, we have a metal mirror in our bedroom that keeps pinging at about between 2 and 3 in the morning, every morning, you know, whatever’s being shot-at, it is hitting the thing and and making a sound in our bedroom. “Ping! Ping!”

Dr Katherine Horton: Also, your wife has to sleep with two military metal helmets; one inside, the other, I have a US and a German Second World War metal helmet, inside each other and I sleep with that and Bill frequently hears the shots impacting on those.

Bill Binney: On the helmets, yeah, yeah. It’s crazy. I mean, you go, “It’s hard to believe that this sh!t is happening,” but it is.

Dr Katherine Horton: Yeah, it is.

Bill Still: I just I can’t get over the picture of this! (Laughs)

Dr Katherine Horton: I know! I can’t get over the picture of it! it’s like going to bed with –

Bill Still: Talk about aluminum foil hats!

Dr Katherine Horton: We’re way past that.

Bill Binney: We’re way past that, Buddy!

Bill Still: This is why I didn’t want to do this interview, because it’s going to destroy your reputation and all the other videos that you’ve done!

Dr Katherine Horton: Well, not really, because we have evidence.

Bill Binney: We have video evidence we’ve got and we’ve got the spectrum analyzer output, we’ve got all of that, recorded and documented. We can document all of that in a Court of Law.

Dr Katherine Horton: By the way – by the way – a bit of background information; so, experiments on microwaves: So, the microwaves were developed in the 1940s but by the 1950s, they were already doing corp human experimentation on victims, a lot of them American.

The way they did that is to put a microwave emitter in the an apartment above or next to a victim. And the brain was the very first thing that they studied, because they wanted to use microwaves for behavioral modification.

They already had evidence that you can create uncontrollable aggression, even uncontrollable sexual violence in men who are not usually like that.

So, it was huge power but when they were doing these classical, old microwave experiments, people’s school education was a lot better better, back then and a lot of people knew that if you use metal – you know, they felt the burning – and you can you can block it out.

So, that’s exactly what they did. They would wrap their head in alu-foil and it would be 100% effective, because it was just classical microwave.

So “Tin Foil Hat” goes back to that time. in the ’50s and ’60s. when alu-foil still had tin in it! It doesn’t have any more tin in it.

So “Tin Foil Hat” dates the whole thing and it perfectly coincides with the CIA’s Mind Control experimentation and covert non-consensual experimentation with microwave.

So, the expression, “Tin Foil Hat” is direct proof that this sh¡t’s been happening for a very long time, in fact.

And I can tell you, these days alu-foil is not enough, so I have upgraded to two helmets.

Bill Binney: Yeah, we use a Faraday Cage and then, stuff goes right through it.

Dr Katherine Horton: Yeah, but also, we have video evidence, showing this sh¡t banging and pinging on my head.

Bill Binney: Yeah, there’s audio, video.

Dr Katherine Horton: Yeah there’s one video, online, that was recorded in my apartment, in Zurich. I have a Tin Foil Hat. I’ve wrapped my head in aluminum, but I also have an aluminum foil sheet in front of my face, because I was being shot from a high rise, across the street and they were shooting straight through my metal shed that I slept in.

And there’s a video recording of me putting this in front of my face and you can hear the impact-sound on the foil and you can see the foil move, as I’m being shot in the face.

So, we have all this evidence about this technology actually existing. Another thing that your audience should know is that, when I started researching this, it was in January 2016, so I have researched sech this for almost a decade, now.

After a couple of years I offered Consulting and counseling services to victims and I was contacted by people, you don’t even believe. So, I spoke to Hollywood actors, I spoke to people of public life, none of whom I can or will name, ever.

But I spoke to judges. So, I there are judges in the United Kingdom and in the US, who are victims of these attacks. So, if you’re wondering why, maybe, you know judges come up with corrupt decisions, it’s not just because they get paid. A lot of them get threatened, they get shot with these fancy-schmancy weapons and they are not physicists, like, me. They don’t even know what hit them, quite literally.

So, it is of utmost importance, that people understand that yes, these stealth weapons exist. Yes, they are a multi- tens-of-billions dollar industry. They they have capabilities that most people can’t even believe or imagine.

But yet, they are being used, you know, against everybody.

I have people who consulted me…whose name you would recognize out there – but also single mothers of autistic children, who are clearly being targeted, because they’re being experimented-on and their child is being experimented-on, because the mothers find the bruises the burn marks on their child.

So, we’re dealing with this huge covert military machinery, of a quarter of a million people who can access the information about this stuff and can basically build business plans, on the back of the rest of society and use them for whatever they want to.

Bill Still: Well, I’m looking at two people who are exceedingly healthy-looking!

Dr Katherine Horton: Looking! healthy-looking!

Bill Still: I don’t know about – I haven’t seen you, so much – over time but I have seen Bill a lot, over time and he’s getting healthier-looking! So, whatever they’re doing should be used as a health-improver! (Laughs)

Bill Binney: Yeah, maybe it’s my genetics, really that’s making the difference.

Dr Katherine Horton: But it’s my contribution!

Bill Binney: My genetics and my wife, who’s insisting I eat certain foods and don’t eat others.

Dr Katherine Horton: So, you know your wife died. Your wife got you diabetes Type Two.

Bill Binney: She did. I had diabetes. I don’t have Type Two diabetes, anymore and basically. I threw away all those damn pills and, you know, now, I’m not contributing all that money to the pharmaceutical industry. In fact, I refuse to pay for pills that cost more than 10 bucks, my co-pay. That’s it! That’s my limit!

Bill Still: So, as many people who are crazy and go to the doctors and say, “I’m hearing these pings!” You’re going to have other people, now; you’re ensuring that other people will go to their doctor and say, “Give me what they’ve got!”

Bill Binney: It’s not a pill, I’m sorry. It’s not a pill. This is a Pill Society, but it’s not a pill I’m sorry. That doesn’t work.