We’ve been hearing about engineers involved in the digital theft of the 2020 election are now in US custody under Witness Protection. In this episode of Tina Peters’ The Truth Matters podcast, hosted by Apollo Pappas, we are finally getting the backstory of how this all went down and it sheds a lot of light on a key player in the hybrid war that is being waged against us that we never saw coming.
Gary Berntsen is a US Air Force Veteran and a retired CIA Senior Operations Officer and Chief of Station in Latin America, with a career in the US National Security apparatus spanning over 30 years. Gary has been working with whistleblowers from the Venezuelan government behind the scenes for decades.
Together with Gary’s investigative partner, Martín Rodil over the past five years, the two have recruited engineers from Venezuela’s digital election theft operation that has been stealing elections in more than 70 countries since the early 2000s. The Cartel has bribed governments around the world to use their election theft technology, using $6.9 billion USAID Taxpayer Dollars to do it, as recently explained by Patrick Byrne.
Not that the Cartel doesn’t have plenty money of their own. Many Americans associate Venezuela with extreme poverty but this is because the Venezuelan Cartel de los Soles stole all of the wealth from the people. This criminal organization generates over a trillion dollars a year in proceeds from drug sales. With this tremendous amount of money, they have been able to bribe officials within our government, our intelligence services, our voting districts and in the media to report favorably about their voting technology.
The Venezuelans even built and opened their own vote auditing companies, controlling the whole system. The 2020 Trump campaign hired a security company that was secretly owned by the Cartel. The company that investigated for the Republican Party in 2020 was controlled by the Cartel.
Venezuela not only stole our elections, they planned – and began – a criminal insurgency in 20 US States.
All of our institutions, including the Fourth Estate have been so corrupted that Gary’s operation had to be done outside of the US’ trillion-dollar National Security System, only for him and Martín to be attacked and threatened with jail.
As a result of everything that’s happened and everything he’s seen, Gary believes that the US needs a new 10,000-man counterintelligence force to work against all the spies who flooded into the US when the border was opened, which he describes as, “A dream for hostile intelligence services.”
Gary and Ralph Pezzullo have memorialized all of this in their important book, ‘Stolen Elections’, which Ralph, a best-selling author of 20 books was forced to self-publish, because everyone else was too afraid to touch it.
Their investigation revealed that Venezuelans first broke into US elections with their Smartmatic technology in the early 2000s in Cook County, Illinois, which is Chicago, where they stole the election there. Then, they went to New Jersey and stole elections there.
In 2006, New York Congresswoman, Carolyn Maloney, received a tip about Smartmatic and wrote a letter to Treasury Secretary John Snow, which spurred an investigation by the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS), which discovered that the Venezuelans had disguised the owners of Smartmatic, leading the Treasury Department to announce they did not trust this software.
As a result, the owners of Smartmatic bought another company called Sequoia, installing their software into Sequoia machines. Then, they tried to get the contract to run elections in the State of California, whose Secretary of State initiated their own investigation of the software with professors from Berkeley and MIT.
They found that it was filled with backdoors and also, that they didn’t know who really owned the software. So it was rejected in California during Governor Schwarzenegger’s tenure. A year later, in 2011, Jerry Brown was elected governor of California and his administration changed the law so that the software didn’t need to be reviewed by this committee and Sequoia promptly landed the contract to run elections in California.
Ralph says, that ever since, every election in California has been run using “Software that was developed in Venezuela and a part of a whole criminal conspiracy that includes Venezuela, Cuba, China, Russia and Serbia.”
Having been forced to divest from Sequoia, Antonio Mugica and the two other Venezuelan owners sold Sequoia to a Canadian company called Dominion, under John Poulos. Now, Dominion had the source code and all the election theft software and they were in charge of elections in six or seven swing states of the United States.
Meanwhile, Smartmatic was getting contracts to do elections worldwide and as Gary says, “Two companies come to an agreement. It’s a evil agreement on how they’re going to divide the world up to steal elections globally, make a fortune doing it and move the world Left.”
Gary had been a CIA Chief-of-Station in Latin America for several terms and when he learned of this election theft operation in 2020, he launched an independent investigation, together with Venezuelan DEA consultant, Martín Rodil. Together, they recruited a dozen of Smartmatic’s engineers, both within and outside of Venezuela, which was difficult, complex and very expensive to do, so they required help.
Gary recalls:
“One of the people we went to for help was, was General Mike Flynn. And Mike Flynn introduced us to Mr Patrick Byrne. Patrick Byrne was a real hero. He stepped-in, he helped finance us. He became the third leg of the stool, as we were doing this for the next couple of years.
“And so, we went after these guys and recruited one after the next, after the next, after the next, and built this out, to the point where we understood how they did it. We understood that, in the engineering, there were 14 different ways, technically, that you could attack the tabulator, you could attack the scanner.
“We found out where they manufactured the machines. The machines were manufactured in the People’s Republic of China, OK? The software and the source code in Venezuela. I mean, what could possibly go wrong, with that combination for the American People?
“But, you know, you had CISA, the Cyber Infrastructure and Security Agency, when it was raised in 2020 that the election was stolen, CISA was on the phone with Smartmatic and Dominion coordinating responses! They were calling the criminals to help them message, in response. This was a – listen – this is one of the most important crimes in American history!
“I handled East Africa bombings. I handled the Khobar Tower bombings for CIA. I led the invasion of Afghanistan. All of that was a warm-up for this.
“This was a real threat to America, because what these people were doing was trying to empower the Left to have a Left-Socialist-type takeover in the United States, using these machines. And you have a combination of the Venezuelan Cartel, the Soros organization, and the Democratic Party leadership coordinating together, working on this, and essentially, they almost succeeded in taking over the country.”
Ralph points out, “Venezuelans – which I think a lot of people don’t understand – have tremendous wealth, OK? Not only do they have the highest oil reserves in the world, they also have this criminal organization called the Cartel de los Soles, which generates over a trillion dollars a year in proceeds from drug sales. They control all the drug trafficking in the Western Hemisphere. And the Sinaloa Cartel, the other cartels work for the Cartel de los Soles!”
The Cartel is estimated to be worth between $2.7-$4 trillion – and they use that money, as Gary recounts:
“They were teamed with the Cuban DGI, Director General of Intelligence, and they were recruiting American officials, American officials in the National Security Council, National Security apparatus and they recruited people in the Central Intelligence Agency, my old organization. What a disgrace this is! So, people are going to go to prison.”
Earlier this year, when DOGE went into the USAID budget, they found an organization called CEPPS, the Consortium for Elections and Political Process Strengthening, which spent $6.9 billion of US Taxpayer Money over the past 15 years to market this software across the globe and to pay for the construction and the manning of the machines in those contracts.
Ralph says, “We have evidence that that our State Department in these countries was was actually working as marketers, in a sense, and putting pressure on other countries to accept this software system, which, whether or not they knew it was corrupt.”
Another thing that Gary and Martín discovered was the involvement of Serbia. Ralph explains, “In Serbia, China maintains huge Huawei servers. And this is where these election companies store their data and do all their manipulation of data. So, they [the Serbians] play a large part of the large part in this conspiracy, as well.”
Gary adds, “Dominion had a research office [in Serbia]. Inside that research office, there were 98 engineers. They were Serbians, Venezuelans and a couple of Chinese. They were literally controlling the swing states of the United States and had the ability to intervene.
Ralph continues, “With engineers from Venezuela, from Iran, from Serbia, from China, you’re talking about hundreds of people. They have big stations in Venezuela and also in Serbia. So this is very coordinated…In talking to the engineers…the steal is planned a year ahead of time.”
Gary continues, “They have engineers and statisticians. They’ll go into a into a specific state and steal a state by attacking maybe three counties, that will use different techniques in every county. They’ll never use the same techniques in adjacent counties. They know what they’re doing.”
When Gary and Martín went to the FBI with their findings in 2022, they were told to flee Washington.
Gary reveals:
“That FBI officer was a very senior officer. And that officer told us to flee the city, because they – and this was during the Biden administration – they said, ‘Because if the FBI finds out what you’re doing, they’ll destroy your investigation and find a way to charge you.’
“And so, that FBI officer said, ‘Go to the media and go to the Congress.’ Well, we went to the Congress and the people there didn’t want to see us. They were afraid. They were intimidated by the investigations. We went to half a dozen senior people in the media, showed them our presentations. They were too afraid. [The Cartel] had everyone cowed.
“They didn’t have us cowed. We don’t back down. We had the intelligence. We had the information. It was a very brave prosecutor – one prosecutor in the United States did help us. He wrote a letter. He saw the information. He sent it to the Office of Public Integrity in the Department of Justice. He told us FBI people would contact us to talk to us.
“Instead, they investigated us! They pursued us! I literally moved out of the United States for one year and lived in Switzerland, so I wouldn’t be covered or detained in this process…
“My business partner, Martín Rodil. They made up phony charges against him. They paid people in Spain, OK? They paid the government of Spain to charge him. He’d been working with the Drug Enforcement Agency for years against the Cartel. They poured in millions and millions and paid Spanish officials and judges and prosecutors.
“Spain, a NATO ally, is owned lock, stock and barrel by the Cartel! They paid for their campaigns. They snuck money into them.
“I mean, it’s such a disgrace! From the President, their leadership there in Spain; their congressmen, their security forces, their intelligence service, they’re all on the tit of the of the Cartel! They are! And it is horrible!…
“They sued people like Fox and they sued Newsmax. They sued a lot of people. Nobody’s suing me. You know why? Because I went public and said, ‘Guess what? I’ve got your source code! I’ve got your engineers!’
When Newsmax and Fox News settled with Dominion, it made them appear guilty. Gary and Martín had offered to share their evidence with both of them before trial but they didn’t want to see it. Something odd was going on.
In a video Gary posted last October, before the 2024 election, he said, “In FoxNews’ against Dominion, we briefed Fox News trial attorneys. Our lawyers were present when we did that. FoxNews corporate officers refused to be briefed directly for that case. They wanted plausible deniability. FoxNews corporate knew we had significant evidence – and, more importantly, witnesses. When all the facts are known, Fox News executives and Board will have to explain why they went down on their knees for enemies of the US.
“We briefed Newsmax’s corporate attorney, as well. Though their settlement with Smartmatic is not public, any settlement with either company and their masters, the Cartel de los Soles, the Cuban DGI, and CCP, makes it more difficult for those of us trying to defend the country and our democracy.”
The effect of those two lawsuits was to effectively shut down all of the media and to scare everybody off publishing anything about Dominion Voting Systems. (Not me, which is why I’ve been de-platformed everywhere!)
Gary says:
“Something else I’d like to add is that we also are the original sources of the information on Tren de Aragua. Over two years ago, I and one of my associates, Blues Buckles, were down in Miami met a source and he turned over two thousand files of of gang members that were that were in Venezuela. Some of them had been trained by the Venezuelan Regime and deployed into the United States.
“[Tren de Aragua members] got a six-week training course on how to fire weapons, how to set fires, how to do riots, crypto, all of that, essentially to conduct a criminal insurgency. And these first three hundred were trained, sent in the United States, and then another five thousand members of Tren de Aragua were deployed into the United States to fall in under those 20 offices. So that information was in the hands of the Biden administration 18 months before President Trump was elected.
“I had shared that information with some some Homeland Security guys. The day after the election, they called me on the phone and said, ‘Now, we have a new president. We can investigate this. Can we meet the source that gave you that information?’
“It was actually the first file. It was called Tren de Aragua and has a description of the criminal organization; what it did, how it functioned and the fact that they wanted a criminal insurgency in the United States in 20 states, where they could turn up the heat or turn down the heat on the United States with massive criminality and understand that in Venezuela, these gang members are inside of these giant prisons and they were letting them out to murder.
“There were assassins for hire for the [Venezuelan] government that would come out of the prisons, kill people and go back. And the Tren de Aragua guys went into the prisons with them, as well. They would withdraw the police from around those areas. And these prisons would become the center of gravity in these communities for political power and security power. And this was the thing they were trying to do to us, in the United States.
“When the President of the United States, Donald Trump, found out about this. He was outraged. And now, you can see vessels off the coast of Venezuela, because he understands that the Cartel de los Soles did massive drug trafficking into the United States, election theft, Trén de Aragua and it was partnered with the Cuban intelligence agency and penetrating the United States national security apparatus.
“These guys are evil in Venezuela. They are criminals. Nicolás Maduro and his entire cabinet are indicted as criminals. And Donald Trump, a couple of weeks ago, gave them special designation as a terrorist group. So this is where we are with Venezuela.
“There are people out there that want to doubt this. Please read the book and watch the people go to prison. Watch the cases that are going to be closed in the coming months.
“And it is a it is a shame, on one hand. But on the other hand, we were fortunate that we and others fought back and have fought to save our Constitutional Republic.”
With the end of the Biden administration, federal law enforcement has stopped pursuing Gary and Martín and instead, they’re pursuing the criminals, so Gary’s optimistic about this and he has confidence in the people chosen by the President and by Pam Bondi.
But the country is still left with the tremendous problem, which is the years of propaganda, censorship and the inversion of reality perpetrated by the media that has not let up and which Ralph says will require a huge amount of education to bring the American public up to speed, which is why they published ‘Stolen Elections’, which takes the reader step-by-step, how they accomplished this.
Ralph says, “The key are the engineers that Gary and Martín recruited, because these men and women, they know how each election was stolen. They use different techniques. It’s a very complicated scientific process. It’s not just a one-dimensional thing and within the book, it’s all broken down and documented.
Gary adds, “They explained how they built the source code. They explained to us how they steal elections. And they are in front of federal officials, right now; law enforcement and DOJ, explaining how this is all done.”
So if anyone reading this knows anybody who’s behind the curve on all of this, you may want to forward this article to them and/or buy them a copy of their book!
This episode of Tina Peters’ The Truth Matters podcast was hosted by Apollo Pappas, because Tina Peters has been wrongfully imprisoned by corrupt officials in the State of Colorado since October 2024. Tina was the County Clerk for Mesa County, Colorado who backed-up the Dominion voting system in 2020 – which was her job – and she was convicted on 7 charges of Election Interference and sentenced to 9 years in prison, where she remains.
You can donate to TinaPeters.US to help her appeal her case. The testimony of the defecting election theft engineers will be used in her appeal.
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TRANSCRIPT
Opening Montage
Gary Berntsen: 2020, the election was stolen. We recruited a dozen of the engineers. This is one of the most important crimes in American history.
Ralph Pezzullo: This is what Sidney Powell was talking about when she said, “Release the Kraken.”
Gary Berntsen: You know, the media was the accomplice of the cartel.
Ralph Pezzullo: “Perhaps you can bring in experts to develop software that can help you steal votes.” That’s how this all started.
Gary Berntsen: Eventually, they would open up Smartmatic.
Ralph Pezzullo: Another company called Sequoia.
Gary Berntsen: Dominion, now will conduct elections in America, make a fortune doing it, and move the world Left.
CISA was on the phone with Smartmatic and Dominion, coordinating responses.
Ralph Pezzullo: This criminal organization called the Cartel de los Soles, over a trillion dollars a year in proceeds from drug sales. They were also able to pay off officials in the United States.
Gary Berntsen: American officials in the National Security Council, national security apparatus – what a disgrace¡
Ralph Pezzullo: The key are the engineers that Gary and Martín recruited.
Gary Berntsen: That’s why President Trump has constantly said he knows what happened. You and I paid for that, with our tax dollars.
Ralph Pezzullo: In Serbia, China maintains huge Huawei servers.
Gary Berntsen: So, Dominion had a research office there. Inside that research office, there were 98 engineers. They were literally controlling the Swing States of the United States and had the ability to intervene.
They actually opened and built their own audit companies in different parts of the country.
Ralph Pezzullo: The steal is a plan a year ahead of time.
Gary Berntsen: Tina Peters, we admire you. Can’t wait to meet you and God bless America.
Apollo Pappas: Alright, welcome back. You are, of course, still on The Truth Matters, the show of Tina Peters.
And we are here in her stead, because Tina Peters, for standing up for you, the American people, for doing her job, she is still in prison today.
When we are recording this, it is her birthday, the 11th of September. Not only the birthday of Tina Peters, who still sits in jail, but also a very powerful memory for the American People, the anniversary of 9/11, as well as the anniversary of the Benghazi attack that claimed American lives and Ambassador Chris Stevens.
So a solemn day, but as time goes on, more and more things are coming to light. And we can be grateful for so many things. And here today, we have two amazing guests who’ve been gracious enough to come on today.
We have Ralph Pezzullo. He’s the bestselling author of ‘Stolen Elections’, as well as Gary Berntsen, a former CIA operations officer and a whistleblower. Both of them you’ve seen recently on shows like Adam Carolla, where they went into a lot of details.
And these are, of course, truths and information that the American people have been told they’re crazy for even questioning for quite some time, now. It’s been several years, where we’ve been ridiculed and mocked and told that we need to go get our vaccine shut up, you know, and go along with the Cabal, as they continue to tell us that we all vote to raise our taxes and put these radical lunatics into office, while we have the guy who can’t tie his own shoes or say his own name, supposedly running the country.
So I want to thank both of them for joining us today on The Truth Matters.
So Ralph and Gary, thank you for being here today. And do you want to, Ralph, give yourself a quick little introduction? We’ll start with you.
Ralph Pezzullo: Sure. My name is Ralph Pezzullo. I’m a bestselling author of over 30 books. And I’ve written two of them with Gary Berntsen, who’s a good friend of mine and a great American hero.
We wrote ‘Jawbreaker’ together in 2005, which was a New York Times bestseller, about Gary’s mission when he was in the CIA. He was sent into Afghanistan after 9/11 with a small team of CIA and Special Forces operators. And within a matter of weeks, and with the help of US airstrikes, they were able to overthrow the Taliban.
And then they had bin Laden trapped in Tora Bora. So that’s Gary. Gary?
Gary Berntsen: Yes. Pleasure to be with you today. And my name is Gary Berntsen. I’m a retired officer of the Central Intelligence Agency’s clandestine service.
I was an ME and South Asia Division officer, spending most of my life out in the Middle East and in South Asia. I would conclude my career as a Chief of Station a couple of more times in Latin America. And during that period of time, I was learning Spanish.
I originally was a Persian speaker in the Agency and now I had Spanish. And several years ago, with a business partner, we began doing work against the Cartel de los Soles, the cartel in Venezuela, which is a massive criminal enterprise, maybe one of the largest in the world, ever.
And from there, we would not only learn about their narco-trafficking and money-laundering, but we stumbled again and again into election fraud. And that’s where this story begins. Go ahead, Ralph.
Ralph Pezzullo: OK. So it starts back in 2003, end of 2003, into 2004, when Hugo Chavez, who was the President and military strongman in control of Venezuela, was facing a recall vote.
And his partners in Cuba, he was very close to Fidel Castro, Fidel Castro was sort of his father figure/mentor. They informed him that he was going, polls were showing that he was going to lose the recall vote.
And so, he asked them, “Well, what can I do?” And they said, “Well, there’s this new computer system of counting votes and operating elections. And perhaps you can bring in experts to develop software that can help you steal votes by using electronic voting machines.”
So he hired three Venezuelan software engineers who received their degrees at Simón Bolívar, University, which is their equivalent of MIT and they developed a software system, which they put into Olivetti calculating machines that they bought in Italy.
Gary Berntsen: Lottery machines!
Yeah, and they were successful in manipulating the vote electronically to steal the election for Hugo Chavez. That’s how this all started. Gary, you want to pick it up from there?
Gary Berntsen: Yes, Hugo Chavez was thrilled with the fact that they had succeeded in building what was called a source code and the accompanying software with it and inserted in those lottery machines. One of the individuals that had been the professor to these guys at Simón Bolívar was a local representative for Olivetti.
So, they would load them up with a lot of cash and they would start exporting that machine out of Venezuela. But what they did was they took what they opened a company. These three engineers had a company in the United States called, well, they’d opened up a series of companies starting with software, software and Vista.
And eventually they would open up Smartmatic. Smartmatic would be registered. And one of the owners would be Omar Montilla. Hugo Chavez’s chief of staff had a piece of the company. As they started to monetize this and they started stealing elections across Latin America.
Very quickly, they came into the United States and they ran two elections with a bunch of Venezuelans that would fly up on a plane from Venezuela, up to Cook County, Illinois, right? The Chicago area. It’s a little famous, you know, John F Kennedy stole that. That was stolen, you know, by Mayor Daley. Back in ’60, you know, for Kennedy.
But they steal the Cook County election. And then, of course, they go into New Jersey. They steal elections there.
And then what occurs is interesting, because a congresswoman in New York, in Manhattan, Carolyn Maloney, someone gives her a tip or one of her staff members learn about it. And she writes a letter to Secretary of Treasury John Snow saying, “There’s a problem, here. We have Venezuelans that are manipulating software. They have a particular technology called H.A.A.T.”
And this was 20 years ago, almost 20 years, 2006, that she wrote that letter. And now begins an investigation by CFIUS. And CFIUS is a congressional committee that does research and things on foreign investment in the United States.
Go ahead and take it, Ralph.
Ralph Pezzullo: And so, they do the investigation and they’re asking for who are the owners of Smartmatic? And the Venezuelans, through corporate manipulation, have disguised the owners of Smartmatic. And basically, the Treasury Department comes back and says, “We don’t we don’t trust this software.”
So, the owners of Smartmatic buy another company called Sequoia. And they install their software into Sequoia machines and they go to California and they try to get permission, get the contract to run elections in the State of California.
The State of California, the Secretary of State of the state of California, initiates his own or her own investigation, using professors from Berkeley and MIT. And they examine the software and they go, “No, no, no, this doesn’t pass the test. This is filled with backdoors into this system. And also, we still don’t know who really owns this software.”
So it’s rejected. That was during Governor Schwarzenegger’s tenure. A year later, Jerry Brown is elected governor of California. They changed the law so that the software doesn’t have to be reviewed by this committee and it ends up being that the company ends up getting the contract to run elections in California.
So basically, every election, since then has been run using software that was developed in Venezuela and a part of a whole criminal conspiracy that includes Venezuela, Cuba, China, Russia and Serbia.
And this criminal conspiracy has been able to run elections in our country using software created in Venezuela since 2006.
Gary Berntsen: One of the things that was interesting that occurs is that these individuals are forced to divest themselves from Sequoia. And what happens is, is the company is sold to a company in Toronto called Dominion.
This is where Dominion comes in and John Poulos. And, and John Poulos, we understand, met Antonio Mugica, who was the principal, one of the three principal builders and owners of Smartmatic in the beginning. And met him at a electoral conference in Bogotá, is a story that we heard.
But John Poulos winds up buying Sequoia. Now, Dominion has the source code, the rest of the software, these tools. And Dominion had only had been in existence for six or seven years, but only run one local election in Toronto. And now, they’re in charge of elections in six or seven swing states of the United States.
They’ve got like 22% to 24% market share. And so, Dominion, now will conduct elections in America with the source code and the accompanying software and engineering feats that they’ve created, that all helped them steal elections and defeat audit.
And Smartmatic will do elections, worldwide. Two companies come to an agreement. It’s a evil agreement on how they’re going to divide the world up to steal elections globally, make a fortune doing it and move the world Left.
Go ahead, Ralph.
Ralph Pezzullo: Yeah. And I think an important part of this is the investigation. So, Gary has a partner called Martín Rodil. As Gary explained before, they started-out basically investigating drug-trafficking and money-laundering in Venezuela. And they kept hearing about, “Well, the regime also has election software that they’re using and they’re running elections in other countries.”
And Martín and Gary hear about this in about 2000, 2020, and they launch a criminal investigation and they’re very experienced investigators. And so what they do is they start to recruit sources within the criminal conspiracy. That’s how all these huge international investigations are conducted.
And they end up, how many engineers did you end up recruiting?
Gary Berntsen: We recruited a dozen of the engineers. You have to understand that we recruited them out of the country, recruited them inside Venezuela.
This is a very complex and difficult thing to do. It’s also very expensive. You know, we, we needed help. And so one of the people we went to for help was, was General Mike Flynn. And Mike Flynn introduced us to Mr Patrick Byrne. Patrick Byrne was a real hero. He stepped-in, he helped finance us. He became the third leg of the stool, as we were doing this for the next couple of years.
And so we went after these guys and recruited one after the next, after the next, after the next, and built this out, to the point where we understood how they did it. We understood that, in the engineering, there were 14 different ways, technically, that you could attack the tabulator, you could attack the scanner.
We found out where they manufactured the machines. The machines were manufactured in the People’s Republic of China, OK? The software and the source code in Venezuela. I mean, what could possibly go wrong, with that combination for the American People?
But, you know, you had people, you had CISA, the Cyber Infrastructure and Security Agency. When it was raised in 2020 that the election was stolen, CISA was on the phone with Smartmatic and Dominion coordinating responses.
They were calling the criminals to help them message, in response. This was a – listen – this is one of the most important crimes in American history.
I handled East Africa bombings. I handled the Khobar Tower bombings for CIA. I led the invasion of Afghanistan. All of that was a warm-up for this.
This was a real threat to America, because what these people were doing was trying to empower the Left to have a Left-Socialist-type takeover in the United States, using these machines. And you have a combination of the Venezuelan Cartel, the Soros organization, and the Democratic Party leadership coordinating together, working on this, and essentially, they almost succeeded in taking over the country.
Ralph Pezzullo: And the other part of it is, is that the Venezuelans – which I think a lot of people don’t understand – have tremendous wealth, OK? Not only do they have the highest oil reserves in the world, they also have this criminal organization called the Cartel de los Soles, which generates over a trillion dollars a year in proceeds from drug sales. They control all the drug trafficking in the Western Hemisphere. And the Sinaloa Cartel, the other cartels work for the Cartel de los Soles.
So with this tremendous amount of money, they were not only able to promote and market their software all over the world, they’re now in over 72 countries around the world, they were also able to pay off officials within our government, within our intelligence service, and within voting districts and the voting apparatus in the United States.
So what we’re left with, now is just a tremendous problem, which is being addressed at this time, but requires a huge amount of education to bring the American public up to speed and that’s why Gary and I are talking out, speaking out, and recently have published the book, ‘Stolen Elections’, which details all this. So it takes you step-by-step, how they accomplished this.
And the key are the engineers that Gary and Martín recruited, because these men and women, they know how each election was stolen. They use different techniques. It’s a very complicated scientific process. It’s not just a one-dimensional thing and within the book, it’s all broken down and documented.
Apollo Pappas: Just for the audience’s clarity, by “recruited these engineers”, you mean recruited them from within these programs and organizations that were stealing the election?
Gary Berntsen: Yes, and had them come out and they explained how they built the source code. They explained to us how they steal elections. And they are in front of federal officials, right now; law enforcement and DOJ, explaining how this is all done.
That’s why President Trump has constantly said he knows what happened. Because we have got the witnesses. They sued people like Fox and they sued Newsmax. They sued a lot of people. Nobody’s suing me. You know why? Because I went public and said, “Guess what? I’ve got your source code! I’ve got your engineers!”
We have the information on all of this. A lot of people are going to prison over this. You know, the shame of this is the media just sucked it up and drank from these lies, OK? It will be a great pleasure to watch these people go to jail.
The other problem, though, and as Ralph pointed out, this was the criminal cartel. It’s worth $2.7 trillion dollars, is one number. Others have told us it’s probably closer to $4 trillion. But they use that money, because they were teamed with the Cuban DGI, Director General of Intelligence, and they were recruiting American officials, American officials in the National Security Council, National Security apparatus and they recruited people in the Central Intelligence Agency, my old organization. What a disgrace this is! So, people are going to go to prison.
Ralph Pezzullo: And evidence of how bad this is was discovered by DOGE, when they when they went into the USAID budget. What they found was an organization called CEPPS [the Consortium for Elections and Political Process Strengthening] and this organization was using US taxpayer money to the tune of half a billion dollars since 2008 to market this software to other countries across the globe!
Gary Berntsen: Ralph, they spent $6.9 billion, over a period of 15 years with CEPPS. Yeah, that was, as Ralph said, an NGO out of Arlington, Virginia. So taxpayers, American taxpayers, were financing the use of these machines in over 30 of the 70 countries where it was stolen! You and I paid for that with our tax dollars!
Apollo Pappas: You know, what it sounds like you’re saying is that we were paying for them to go market and bribe these other people in order to install those systems.
Gary Berntsen: And to pay for the machines, to pay for the construction, the manning of the machines and those contracts. We American citizens were paying for the tax. In the book, it gives you a list of all the countries that CEPPS, taking American money, American taxpayer money. We paid for the machines to steal elections in dozens of countries!
Ralph Pezzullo: Yeah, and we have evidence that that our State Department in these countries was was actually were actually working as marketers, in a sense, and putting pressure on other countries to accept this software system, which, whether or not they knew it was corrupt or not was – so the United States taxpayers were promoting this to other countries across the globe.
Gary Berntsen: I want to go back for a second. My business partner and I went to the FBI and spoke to an FBI officer over two years ago and did a layout alone, in a in a law office with an FBI officer. That FBI officer was a very senior officer. And that officer told us to flee the city, because they – and this was during the Biden administration – they said, because if the FBI finds out what you’re doing, they’ll destroy your investigation and find a way to charge you.
And so, that FBI officer said, “Go to the media and go to the Congress.” Well, we went to the Congress and the people there didn’t want to see us. They were afraid. They were intimidated by the investigations. We went to half a dozen senior people in the media, showed them our presentations. They were too afraid. They had everyone cowed.
They didn’t have us cowed. We don’t back down. We had the intelligence. We had the information. It was a very brave prosecutor – one prosecutor in the United States did help us. He wrote a letter. He saw the information. He sent it to the Office of Public Integrity in the Department of Justice. He told us FBI people would contact us to talk to us. Instead, they investigated us. They pursued us. I literally moved out of the United States for one year and lived in Switzerland, so I wouldn’t be covered or detained in this process.
Apollo Pappas: Man, it’s a familiar story, in a number of different ways, from whistleblowers from the FBI, military, X, Y, and Z. You mentioned the FBI, obviously. So we have some big problems there. A lot of Americans knew that. I don’t know how much, but you have all of this.
Ralph Pezzullo: Yeah. And the CIA.
Apollo Pappas: Absolutely. But I mean, you have all of this evidence.
Gary Berntsen: It’s being worked on now. There are responsible people in DOJ. Donald Trump has put this in the hands of responsible people in DOJ, and there are some responsible people in FBI that are doing this.
But I’m telling you, as someone who served my entire life in the US Government, first in the Armed Forces, then a full career in the CIA, I personally don’t trust the FBI, nor do I trust the CIA, at this point, my own former employers.
I trust the Department of Defense and I trust Homeland Security. I’m heartbroken by this. These people pursued us. I’m not making this up. This is not some kind of crazy fantasy. And this is what occurred. And we’ve been interviewed on this. I made a video before the election, what was happening. I’ve made other videos to bring certain issues to height.
But I will say this. The President instinctively understood what the problem was. He’s got people working on it and I think we’re going to get through this process and there will be people prosecuted. The President will get rid of the machines, hopefully, and that we’ll be voting on pieces of paper, you know, and hand-count single-day or two days, because all of these things that they designed in the world, whether it’s electronic machines or absentee ballots, was all done to facilitate the theft of elections and the command of a $28 trillion economy. That’s what they took over.
2020, the election was stolen, clearly stolen. And we have the engineers to describe it and to prove it. And so that is what is ongoing right now.
Ralph Pezzullo: This is what Sidney Powell was talking about when she said, “Release the Kraken.” The trouble was that in 2020, Gary and Martín had suspicions. They had pretty good intelligence that this existed.
But they told the Trump administration officials, back then that they needed time to conduct a thorough criminal investigation. And so, people within the campaign announced this, but they weren’t able to back it up, the way –
Gary Berntsen: – the problem was. The campaign hired a security company that was actually owned by the Cartel! The cartel owned a major portion. And so, the guys who were under the control of the Cartel are the ones that investigated for the Republican Party in 2020! That’s disgraceful, too. I mean, this is a very sordid story.
Apollo Pappas: That’s why, like now, we here we are in September of 2025. I mean, it was really these people were just bought with money?
Ralph Pezzullo: Yes. A lot of them were bought. A lot of people were compromised. Yes. It’s awful, but true. And as Gary said, those people are being revealed and investigated now. So the process is starting. But this is going to take a long time to clean up.
Gary Berntsen: You know, I want to say something else. You know, I said earlier that that that Patrick Byrne, who came in and he gave us money and helped us and became an important integral part of the team, three parts of the stool. But there really was a fourth leg. And it was Ralph because Ralph was known about this, now for 15 months and he was been with us over a year working on this with us as part of the team.
And he was going to try to release the book eight months ago, but couldn’t get it out! Couldn’t get, you know – it looked like a capture and kill job against the book!
Ralph Pezzullo: Yeah. I had a publisher who I went to who wanted to see the presentation that the evidence that Gary and Martín had put together. And I arranged for him to see it. And he was blown away. And he went, “Oh, my God, we got to get this book out, right away!” I wrote the book quickly, because he wanted to get it out before the election. And then a week before the book was supposed to be released, suddenly put the brakes on the whole project and said he couldn’t put it out because he was going to get sued.
Well, Gary did a series of videos. We did some videos together and we put them out before the election. Nobody sued us. So I figured, “OK, now the publisher will release the book.” But he didn’t. He held it up for up until now.
I had to self-publish it on Amazon to get the book out. So this system of corruption and compromising people is deep, because these people have a lot of money that they can spread around.
And also, as Gary mentioned, they sued Newsmax and Fox News and both of them settled, making it seem as though they were guilty when, in fact, they could have also – Gary and Martín had offered to share their evidence with both Newsmax and Fox News before trial, and they didn’t want to see it. So what was going on, there?
But those two suits, which were which were theater, right? They effectively shut down all of the media, scared-off everybody. When we went to all the Left-leaning and Truther kind of podcasts. They were afraid. They said, “No, no, no, we can’t touch this. Our lawyer said we’ll get sued.”
So, it’s just taken a lot of guts and perseverance and two American incredible heroes, Martín Rodil and Gary Berntsen, to get to the bottom of this. And they had to finance this whole investigation themselves with the help of people like Patrick Byrne. So it’s been quite a saga. Hopefully, now we’re presenting the evidence to the American public and they can read it. They can talk to us. They can examine everything and they will find out that this is a pretty shocking, horrible story.
Gary Berntsen: Something else I’d like to add is that we also are the original sources of the information on Tren de Aragua. Over two years ago. I and one of my associates, Blues Buckles, were down in Miami met a source and he turned over two thousand files of of gang members that were that were in Venezuela. Some of them had been trained by the Venezuelan Regime and deployed into the United States.
They got a six-week training course on how to fire weapons, how to set fires, how to do riots, crypto, all of that, essentially to conduct a criminal insurgency. And these three first three hundred were trained, sent in the United States, and then another five thousand members of Tren de Aragua were deployed into the United States to fall in under those 20 offices. So that information was in the hands of the Biden administration 18 months before President Trump was elected.
The day after the election, you know, I had shared that information with some some Homeland Security guys. The day after the election, they called me on the phone and said, “Now, we have a new president. We can investigate this. Can we meet the source that gave you that information?”
Because, it was that [inaudible] it was actually the first file. It was called Tren de Aragua and as a description of the criminal organization; what it did, how it functioned and the fact that they wanted a criminal insurgency in the United States in 20 states, where they could turn up the heat or turn down the heat on the United States with massive criminality and understand that in Venezuela, these gang members are inside of these giant prisons and they were letting them out to murder.
They were working. There were assassins for hire for the [Venezuelan] government that would come out of the prisons, kill people and go back. And the Tren de Aragua guys went into the prisons with them, as well. They would withdraw the police from around those areas. And these prisons would become the center of gravity in these communities for political power and security power. And this was the thing they were trying to do to us, in the United States.
When the President of the United States, Donald Trump, found out about this. He was outraged. And now, you can see vessels off the coast of Venezuela, because he understands that the Cartel de los Soles did massive drug trafficking into the United States, election theft, Trén de Aragua and it was partnered with the Cuban intelligence agency and penetrating the United States national security apparatus. These guys are evil in Venezuela. They are criminals.
Nicolás Maduro and his entire cabinet are indicted as criminals. And Donald Trump, a couple of weeks ago, gave them special designation as a terrorist group. So this is where we are with Venezuela.
You know, there are people out there that want to doubt this. Please read the book and you will and watch the people go to prison. Watch the cases that are going to be closed in the coming months.
And it is a it is a shame, on one hand. But on the other hand, we were fortunate that we and others fought back and have fought to save our Constitutional Republic.
Apollo Pappas: Before we go any further, I want to have you plug where people can go get the book so they know where to get it. My statement that this is obviously like declarations of war regarding this and that regime, as well as any other nations who are working with them, if I’m not mistaken. Yes. And so I want you to plug the book but then also, you know, we’ve seen and heard a lot of things. And of course, we have a lot of fronts where the, you know, CCP. –
Gary Berntsen: – One thing that we’re out to do first, though. Ralph, you need to interrupt in just for a second and talk about Serbia, the role of Serbia in all of this and the control of the swing states, please.
Ralph Pezzullo: OK, so so one of the things that Gary and Martín also discovered is that Serbia is involved. In Serbia, China maintains huge Huawei servers. And this is where these election companies store their data and do all their manipulation of data. So, they [the Serbians] play a large part of the large part in this conspiracy, as well.
Gary Berntsen: There was Dominion. So Dominion had a research office, there. Inside that research office, there were 98 engineers. They were Serbians, Venezuelans and a couple of Chinese. They were literally controlling the swing states of the United States and had the ability to intervene.
Apollo Pappas: That’s a very large organization, and it’s not a quiet one, in the sense that there are some people here who say, “Oh, well, yeah, you have all these vulnerabilities with the machines, Dominion. You could have like one dude really do something, push a button.” I’m not going to get too technical with it, but and they can flip stuff, which, to some extent is true. But the reality, it’s not what happened. This was a well-coordinated, huge, well-funded international team.
Ralph Pezzullo: With engineers from Venezuela, from Iran, from Serbia, from China. You’re talking about hundreds of people. They have big stations in Venezuela and also in Serbia. So this is very coordinated. They plan this in talking to the engineers, the sources, these elections are planned. The steal is planned a year ahead of time. It’s not just “Push a button at the last minute.”
Gary Berntsen: They have engineers and statisticians. They’ll go into a into a specific state and steal a state by attacking maybe three counties, that will use different techniques in every county. They’ll never use the same techniques in adjacent counties. They know what they’re doing.
Apollo Pappas: It’s not as simple as a set point algorithm or something like that.
Ralph Pezzullo: No, no, no.
Apollo Pappas: Way more complicated than that.
Ralph Pezzullo: Way more complicated. They deliberately, you know, it’s very, very sophisticated. They’re always updating the system and they’re trying to cover their tracks. And that’s why it’s been so hard to detect. And the only way and people have been looking at it from the outside.
And from the outside, it’s hard to see anything, right? You see the symptoms of the steal. But it was only when we had whistleblowers, like Gary and Martín, who recruited engineers from within the conspiracy, the guys who designed it, the guys who stole the elections in particular districts that you’re able to understand how sophisticated this operation is and how it works.
Apollo Pappas: Wow, what a mess. You know, and you’ve already spoken about, obviously, the FBI, State Department, CIA. And we don’t have to make a list. But just for everyone in their own states who have been tracking this, who have been working, it’s impossible that this happened, if you didn’t have the same type of payouts going on at the secretary of state level, at the county level.
There’s clearly plenty of money. But there were a lot of people. And I think most have come to realize just how many. But there were a lot of people that had to have been aware and either stayed silent or, you know, took a cut, in order for this to continue to go on without being uncovered at some more of a level, because they’ve had investigations at the state level all over the country. And then, court cases disappear. The judgments flip in such a retarded way. You know, pardon my vulgarity. And and you have, again, secretary of state, attorney generals, clerks, and they all go mute.
I mean, you have Tina Peters, the only one who who at least publicly made an image and preserved the actual records that were required by federal and state law. She’s now been in prison for a year. She has an active appeal going.
And you have one other in Colorado, maybe two. But Dallas Schroeder made one. He ended up turning it over to the secretary of state. They kind of made that one disappear.
And then there are a few other images that I know have been spoken about from other counties, like in Michigan. But you have like this one woman. And we have how many counties in the in the country? And all we have this one image from Mesa County, at least publicly, is the only record before they did this “Trusted Build”?
Ralph Pezzullo: Well, as Gary pointed out before, these Venezuelan companies, they also own the audit companies. So they’ve got the whole system covered! They’ve outsmarted us, because we haven’t been paying attention.
Apollo Pappas: You’re talking about the testing labs when you say auditing companies?
Gary Berntsen: No, there are companies that get paid to do audit after an election. There’s an audit. And they actually opened and built their own audit companies in different parts of the country! I mean, it’s it’s there isn’t anything they didn’t consider!
Ralph Pezzullo: Yeah. They’re very smart.
Gary Berntsen: The American people – or many people in that States are a bunch of dullards, you know, they they couldn’t believe that it’s not impossible. They listen to these these people on the news…You know, the media was the accomplice of the Cartel. The media did everything possible to suppress anyone who wanted to speak up. Shame on them. Shame on them!
One day, our next book – Ralph, you’ll have to put out. It’s called ‘The Villains of Election Day’. We’ll have to shame them all!
Apollo Pappas: They’re still doing it, even when they talk about Venezuela! You have some people who kind of have a clue, but they’re still going, “Oh, yeah, they’re just looking after drug trafficking.” It’s like they care about it, when they don’t want to talk about why there’s actually very clear military movements going on from the United States side.
Ralph Pezzullo: Well, then this is one of the reasons why. The administration isn’t talking about it but the roots of this go to the criminal regime in Venezuela and all of the the attacks, in different areas that they’ve launched against the United States.
So the election part of it is just one. Gary mentioned Tren de Aragua, you know, the amount of corruption that they’ve inflicted on our banks, that the whole money-laundering system. They they have so much money, that they’re able to corrupt all of our institutions.
Gary Berntsen: It’s a hybrid war.
Yeah. And I talk to intelligent people and they go like, “Oh, come on! Venezuela could do something like this?” And I’m like, “Do you know that Venezuela has the highest oil reserves in the world?” And they go, “No, no.” I said, “Well, look it up. That’s the truth.” And then, the Cartel de los Soles, which also nobody’s ever heard of, is on top of that!
And and this is not an accident. Like, they have deliberately spent a lot of money trying to silence our press and to get people to look the other way. And if we don’t do something about it, which is happening now, that’s the end of our country.
Apollo Pappas: So I have a question with some of all of these investigations that are going on – and God is good. Thank you – there are, you know, things happening behind the scenes and this information is being presented properly, you know, where it needs to be. And America and myself and Tina, we all thank you for your work in facilitating that. Both of you. Thank you.
But we have obviously these huge networks. Even, you know, we have the assassination of Charlie Kirk. I think that was extremely strategic, especially considering his audience is almost entirely young men. It’s youth. And if you want to pop off some kind of civil war or some kind of violence and get people to be able to be radicalized and spun up. Charlie Kirk is, you know, top three people you could possibly choose. I don’t know. You could have picked a better one. And before 9/11, of all things.
But you have these networks and they certainly include the media with USAID investigations. At what point do those networks get shown? Do either of you have an inclination of some kind of timeline for all the people who are out there saying they’re “Conservatives” and they are “America First” actually get shown and held to account for misleading the American people and causing so much death and harm over these extra years that it took to get the truth to see any light of day?
Gary Berntsen: There are dedicated people in the Department of Justice and some in the FBI that are helping us, now. And they are actually doing the work. They stopped pursuing us and they’re now, you know, pursuing the criminals. So we’re optimistic about this. We’ve met the the bureau people and the prosecutors that are working on this and I’m I have confidence in the people that are working the problem, right now. And those people were chosen by the President and by Pam Bondi.
So, you know, let’s let’s let’s give them a chance and and I’m optimistic. But they’re moving forward at breakneck pace. There’s a very large element of them working together. So, you know, you know, America, we have a fighting chance here.
Ralph Pezzullo: Yeah. And another thing that people need to understand is that when the administration, when Pam Bondi and Kash Patel and so on and so forth, when they took their positions, they inherited institutions that were filled with corruption. So, part of the job that they’ve spent the last nine months doing is just cleaning up their workforce and a lot of people have been let go. Hasn’t been really publicized that much. But hundreds of people have been have been dismissed, because they understand that they can’t truly investigate anything until they clean up their own departments.
Gary Berntsen: We need a new counterintelligence service in the United States. Britain has the MI5. We need a 10,000-man counterintelligence force to work against all the spies we’ve been overrun with, when when the border was opened, thousands and thousands, tens of thousands of people were poured-in by China, by Russia, by Iran. This was a dream for hostile intelligence services. They walked them into the United States, courtesy of Joe Biden and his Border Czar, Kamala Harris. What a disgrace that was, too.
So we need a new force in the United States, not just Homeland Security, because Tom Homan and them are doing a good job of rounding people up, getting them out. But this is a more complicated thing we have to deal with now: the counterintelligence threats to the United States.
Ralph Pezzullo: I mean, one of the one of the messages of this book is the fact that it took two whistleblowers, two men to investigate something that our trillion-dollar National Security Defense System absolutely missed. And also, they were they were attacked. They were threatened with jail!
I mean, it’s awful, right? It’s really awful. And hopefully now it’s starting to be addressed. But like we said before, this is going to be a decade-long process, because it’s –
Gary Berntsen: – I’d like to add, too that my business partner, Martín Rodil. They made up phony charges against him. They paid people in Spain, OK? They paid the government of Spain to charge him. He’d been working with the Drug Enforcement Agency for years against the Cartel. They poured in millions and millions and paid Spanish officials and judges and prosecutors. Spain, a NATO ally, is owned lock, stock and barrel by the Cartel!
They paid for their campaigns. They snuck money into them. They I mean, it’s such a disgrace! From the President, their leadership there in Spain, their congressmen, their security forces, their intelligence service, they’re all on the tit of the of the Cartel! They are! And it is horrible!
Apollo Pappas: You know, it’s such a disgrace to you mentioned the CIA and some of these organizations. But I think back to all the military members who were, you know, treated so poorly just for the shot and then, you know, penalized, pushed out for reporting, you know, behavior of people who are violating all kinds of codes.
And you have to look at this, too, especially when you get into NATO and all these wars and aggressions, whatever bullsh¡t they want to call it on a particular day, with Ukraine and sending all of this weaponry to fund and to sell on the Black Market and God knows what terrorist groups got it.
I mean, where was military intelligence? I know they’ve excused a number of, I’ll say loosely, “high-ranking military officials” over the last year or so and that was done somewhat quietly.
Gary Berntsen: We never approached military intelligence on any of this. This was a civil thing. And so we went to the Bureau. We went to the DNI. We’ve been reporting to the DNI for months. You know, we went to Homeland Security.
Homeland Security guys were really good. I have to say this, that Homeland Security investigations are real police officers. They never took a political bent. They did their jobs. They did their jobs the best they could. And I’m a real big fan of HSI. I really am. And I’m a fan of Kristi Noem and company, over there. They’re doing their work.
Ralph Pezzullo: But the American people need to get smart quick and we need to investigate all of this and get to the bottom of it and demand that our political leadership cleans up our bureaucracy, cleans up our intelligence services and keeps the American public better informed about what’s going on in the world. Because it hasn’t been happening.
Apollo Pappas: In your opinion, both of you, what is the best thing? You obviously share information, read your book. I still want to make sure that you very clearly tell them where to get it and encourage them to read it. But there’s so many people who have tried so hard, been working on cases, been requesting information. Some of them have had a lot of success that’s been relatively unreported, because that’s how the media works.
But there’s so many who have felt really powerless to really affect any of this, in great part because of the Cartel-bought media and all these corrupt fake puppets who prance around like they’re “America-First Conservatives”. Is there anything that you would say to the American people who just want to do something or don’t know if what they’re doing is effective? What should they be focusing on?
Gary Berntsen: First thing they should do is read Ralph’s book. Very first thing, read the book.
Ralph Pezzullo: Yeah, and turn off mainstream media because they’re not going to help you. They’re going to mislead you. And we need to start, a big thing that we need to do is to start finding independent media voices that we can trust. Our media has done a huge disservice to the people of the country, and they’re part of the problem.
And the American people are at a huge disadvantage. I feel bad for them, because I think a lot of people want to know, or they’re curious about – you know, they see the symptoms of things. They want to know why we’re in the state we’re in, and they don’t know where to turn for information.
Apollo Pappas: Well, that’s precisely the problem. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. That’s the biggest issue. They don’t know where to turn. And then when they find someone, there’s probably a 70% chance that at some point they’re going to sell them a bag of goods anyways, to distract them from what the story is.
Ralph Pezzullo: Oh, it’s a real problem. Our democracy can’t function without the American people being informed, having sources of information that they can trust. And we need to establish that.
Apollo Pappas: Yeah, well, you’ve both spent a good deal of time with me. And I appreciate that and Tina actually was on the phone with someone on the team and just said, “Thank you, thank you, thank you to both of you.”
Gary Berntsen: Tell her we said God bless her. Can’t wait to have dinner with her when she gets out.
Ralph Pezzullo: Absolutely. God bless her.
Gary Berntsen: God bless her.
Apollo Pappas: Yes. Both of you, please, where do you get your book? I have it up on screen for everybody.
Ralph Pezzullo: The place to get it is at Amazon. Amazon has it in paperback, hardcover, ebook, and soon audiobook. So go to Amazon. That’s the only place that I could get the book published. Mainstream publishing, which I’ve done many, many books with – bestsellers with – they weren’t going to touch this – for obvious reasons.
Apollo Pappas: Well, that link is in the description for everyone watching. And both of you, I’ll make sure it’s in there and we’ll definitely share it. And I’ll be getting one once we hop off, because I definitely want to read it. Thank you. I’ll let you, both of you have a final word. And I just, I truly want to say, I appreciate everything that you’ve been doing and please give my best to Martín, as well. He was wonderful when he was on. And thank you for being Patriots.
Ralph Pezzullo: Thank you. Thank you for what you do. We’re in this fight together and it’s going to take people who believe in the truth, believe in God, and believe that this country is worth saving and worth fighting for to get through this and come out the other side. And we’ve got to do it for our children and our grandchildren. We want to leave them a beautiful democracy, where people can freely express their opinions and can live the lives that they want to live without interference from bigger forces and foreign governments.
Gary Berntsen: I’d like to just say, Tina Peters, we admire you. Can’t wait to meet you. And God bless America.
Ralph Pezzullo: Yes. Amen. God bless America.
Apollo Pappas: God bless both of you gentlemen.
Gary Berntsen: Thank you.
Ralph Pezzullo: Thank you, Apollo. Really appreciate it.
Outro
Segment from the 2022 documentary, ‘[S]ELECTION CODE’, with Lara Logan about the story of Tina Peters.
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